cmotherofpirl Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108603' date='Nov 2 2006, 10:42 AM'] Years ago atheists, at least ones I knew, and pagan UUs, had enough of a consicence to condemn things like the Inquisition. But I know the world has changed even in that short time, and as mroe and more deceptions build up, even non-Christians are being fooled by Rome's calling evil good and vice versa. They do not have the protection of the Holy Spirit for discernment. Actually the idea that an atheist would support the Inquisition is really weird, considering he would have been one of the first put to the stake. This is just more evidence to me, that the lines are being drawn. [/quote] Has the thought occurred to you that a medieval historian [ someone with an actual degree] who has actually thoroughly studied the inquisition and simply not read one or two articles on the net might be right and you are wrong? Can you ever conceive that you might be wrong? Or is that thought too terrifying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote]Has the thought occurred to you that a medieval historian [ someone with an actual degree] who has actually thoroughly studied the inquisition and simply not read one or two articles on the net might be right and you are wrong?[/quote] Unlike some here, I am not overly impressed with academics. So they had money to pay for some expensive degrees, big whoop! Academics show bias all the time and given Romes huge push to whitewash the inquisition...even though it happened 500 years ago, Im not surprised a few atheists, mainliners and others have jumped on the bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108611' date='Nov 2 2006, 10:50 AM'] Unlike some here, I am not overly impressed with academics. So they had money to pay for some expensive degrees, big whoop! Academics show bias all the time and given Romes huge push to whitewash the inquisition...even though it happened 500 years ago, Im not surprised a few atheists, mainliners and others have jumped on the bandwagon. [/quote] You didn't answer my question. Have you ever considered you might be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 When you folks defend the Inquisition, you show absolutely no love. In fact this is one huge sign to me that many on this board are given over to the Enemy. Your pride and arrogance has blinded you. With a few exceptions, I believe those who have taken up for the Inquisiton here, have seared consciences. Considering the state of the universities in this country, their liberalism and love of human wisdom over God's I am not surprised that some of you scrape and bow at the foot of academia, ignoring God's commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108616' date='Nov 2 2006, 10:54 AM'] When you folks defend the Inquisition, you show absolutely no love. In fact this is one huge sign to me that many on this board are given over to the Enemy. Your pride and arrogance has blinded you. With a few exceptions, I believe those who have taken up for the Inquisiton here, have seared consciences. Considering the state of the universities in this country, their liberalism and love of human wisdom over God's I am not surprised that some of you scrape and bow at the foot of academia, ignoring God's commandments. [/quote] You still didn't answer my question. Has it ever occurred to you you could be wrong? A simple yes or no will suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Unlike many here, I examine my beliefs and test them according to Gods Word and the FACTS. No one here has proven anything to me about the Inquisitions but made excuses for the already admitted evils. The torture and deaths happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108620' date='Nov 2 2006, 12:57 PM'] Unlike many here, I examine my beliefs and test them according to Gods Word and the FACTS. No one here has proven anything to me about the Inquisitions but made excuses for the already admitted evils. The torture and deaths happened. [/quote] Yes, torture and death happened. The problem is that you make a far bigger deal out of that as far as culpability goes, based on hindsight and false historical analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 (edited) [quote]The problem is that you make a far bigger deal out of that [/quote] Are you even listening to yourself... You are condemning me for making a big deal out of murder and torture. Come on and you call yourself a Christian? The defenses of the inquisition rest in HUGE MORAL RELATIVISM. Edited November 2, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108640' date='Nov 2 2006, 01:12 PM'] Are you even listening to yourself... You are yelling at me for making a big deal out of murder and torture. Come on and you call yourself a Christian? [/quote] I'm not yelling at you, first of all. I'm typing. Second, you took that out of context. I said that you were making a bigger deal than it deserved in terms of culpability. Murder and torture are one thing, but one is less guilty of them depending on certain factors. Capital punishment isn't even necessarily murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 (edited) [quote]but one is less guilty of them depending on certain factors. Capital punishment isn't even necessarily murder.[/quote] The German Nazi state ordered Nazis to put Jews in the gas chamber. I suppose that was "capital punishment" as well..... {no really it was murder} Dont you have the concept of morality where you follow God's commandments first over ungodly commands of the state? Somehow I get the feeling if you were working down at those secret terrorism holding spots, youd have no problem getting the electrical cords out. Edited November 2, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1108648' date='Nov 2 2006, 01:17 PM'] The German Nazi state ordered Nazis to put Jews in the gas chamber. I suppose that was "capital punishment" as well..... {no really it was murder}[/quote] Watch it. I'm part Jewish and I don't care for people hinting that I'm similar to a Nazi. I said that capital punishment in general isn't necessarily murder. You took me out of context (again) and stretched my meaning beyond intention (again). [quote]Dont you have the concept of morality where you follow God's commandments first over ungodly commands of the state? Somehow I get the feeling if you were working down at those secret terrorism holding spots, youd have no problem getting the electrical cords out.[/quote] On the contrary, I said before and say again that I am completely against torture and I happen also to be against the vast majority of cases of capital punishment. You need to stop with the unwarranted assertions that are designed only to make people look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 (edited) By definition, fundamentalists cannot be wrong. I still haven't figured out yet how they convince themselves of that. I'm guessing they just close their ears and keep repeating to themselves that they are always right. Thus of course Budge doesn't distrust academics, she has already used them in this thread. She just distrusts the ones that don't agree with her viewpoint. Seem kind of unfair? To most people, yeah, but if you have God's unmediated truth in your hand then you have license to manipulate and dominate (In a certain way it was the thinking behind the Inqusition!) Furthermore, since everything is evil to the fundamentalist you get the sloppiest kind of comparisions like the Inquisition with Nazi Germany. They simply can't grasp the difference between 6 million people being killed in 3 years and 6,000 people in 300 years. That in itself is an injustice, but balance has never been a strength of fundamentalists. Edited November 2, 2006 by Justified Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 [quote]Watch it. I'm part Jewish and I don't care for people hinting that I'm similar to a Nazi.[/quote] If you are part Jewish, why on earth would you defend things like auto da fes? I [quote]said that capital punishment in general isn't necessarily murder. You took me out of context (again) and stretched my meaning beyond intention (again).[/quote] The inquisitions were not punishments for violent crimes but for what people believed {THOUGHT CRIMES} [quote]On the contrary, I said before and say again that I am completely against torture and I happen also to be against the vast majority of cases of capital punishment.[/quote] You cannot be completely against torture and defend the Inquisitions it is a contradiction. [quote] By definition, fundamentalists cannot be wrong. I still haven't figured out yet how they convince themselves of that. I'm guessing they just close their ears and keep repeating to themselves that they are always right[/quote] What am I wrong about? That I dont accept your excuses and historical moral relativism for the Inquisitions. . [quote]Thus of course Budge doesn't distrust academics, she has already used them in this thread. She just distrusts the ones that don't agree with her viewpoint[/quote] And obviously so do you, since all of you here seem to have disclaimed even PHOTOGRAPHS of INquisition literature! [quote] Furthermore, since everything is evil to the fundamentalist you get the sloppiest kind of comparisions like the Inquisition with Nazi Germany. They simply can't grasp the difference between 6 million people being killed in 3 years and 6,000 people in 300 years. That in itself is an injustice, but balance has never been a strength of fundamentalists.[/quote] The Holocaust was an updated Inquisition. 6,000 people in 300 years, why does that number keep shrinking almost weekly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Budge, The problem is you can't condemn every aspect of the inquisitions. There was good along with the bad. See? I'm saying there was bad. How else it could have been handled, I don't know. It would be helfpul if we could get an accurate picture before judging. Comparing it to the Nazi's rounding people up on the basis of what they were as opposed to what they did is superficial. There weren't trials of any sort. The various inquisitions can be dealt with according to their rules and using their names. You're being too broad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yes I can condemn the entire Inquisition. The entire premise was wrong and against the commandments of Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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