Bbc Inquisiiton Documentary To Air On Ewtn

[Katholikos]

Hey guys, this is the BBC documentary I wrote about in my thread "Myth of the Spanish Inquisition," with slight modifications, coming soon to a TV channel near you.

I know Budge won't want to miss it. :

EWTN GLOBAL SHOWCASE
TIMEWATCH: MYTH OF THE SPANISH INQUISITION (60:00)


TIMEWATCH: THE MYTH OF THE SPANISH INQUISTION
This program shows how historians now evaluate the Spanish Inquisition since the opening of an investigation into the Inquisition’s archives; it also includes commentary from historians whose studies verify that the tale of the darkest hour of the Church was greatly fabricated.

Sunday November 19, 2006 2:00 AM Eastern Time
Saturday November 18, 2006 11:00 PM Pacific Time
Thursday November 23, 2006 1:00 PM Eastern Time
Thursday November 23, 2006 10:00 AM Pacific Time

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Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

Moderators: Should I have posted this on Open Mic? If so, please feel free to move it. Thanks!

Edited October 27, 2006 by Katholikos

[Budge]

The Inquisition was 500 years ago, instead of saying "we were wrong, lets not have this happen again", the focus now is a huge whitewash of history.

Ive read even Peters book on the Inquisition, I know what all the Catholic-friendly historians say. Some how I dont buy its all the Protestants fault line...{they made up all these myths}, seems to be a far too handy excuse.

Why wouldnt Rome be invested in covering up the Inquisitions and cleaning up their own history?

This is not a way a real church would act. A true church would ADMIT and REPENT of its sins.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103150' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:16 PM']
The Inquisition was 500 years ago, instead of saying "we were wrong, lets not have this happen again", the focus now is a huge whitewash of history.

Ive read even Peters book on the Inquisition, I know what all the Catholic-friendly historians say. Some how I dont buy its all the Protestants fault line...{they made up all these myths}, seems to be a far too handy excuse.

Why wouldnt Rome be invested in covering up the Inquisitions and cleaning up their own history?

This is not a way a real church would act. A true church would ADMIT and REPENT of its sins.
[/quote]
What are your qualifications to decide what a church does?
The Church does not sin, individual members do. he Church has apologized for the sin of its members.

[Budge]

So do you personally consider the Inquisitions to have been a SIN?

This isnt what some of your pals on here are saying.

[Winchester]

Determining sin is up to God, since its a question of culpability, and that resides in one's intent and free choice.

One could judge them to be more or less evil, and it remains that the process of the Inquisition improved the court system.

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103150' date='Oct 28 2006, 09:16 AM']
Ive read even Peters book on the Inquisition, I know what all the Catholic-friendly historians say. Some how I dont buy its all the Protestants fault line...{they made up all these myths}, seems to be a far too handy excuse.
[/quote]

You make gross over-simplifications. Peters does not say "its all the Protestants' fault". And one could hardly call him "Catholic-friendly", perhaps you mean "history-friendly" which is by definition anti-fundamentalist. No wonder you didn't like the book. Your understanding of history is "the blame game" which is why whenever you talk sober history with a fundie you can always tell they are completely lost.

And if you didn't understand what you were reading then you weren't really reading.

Edited October 28, 2006 by Justified Saint

[Budge]

[quote]it remains that the process of the Inquisition improved the court system.[/quote]

What nonsense.

Improved it how?

The "defendant" in the Inquisitions had absolutely no rights whatosever.

[Winchester]

"The institution of the Inquisition itself was not without its positive side in the concrete reality of life. It substituted the procedure of inquiry for the procedrue of accusation. But above all, at a time when the people were not disposed to trifle with heretics, it introduced a regular justice."
Those Terrible Middle Ages by Regine Pernoud.


Regine was not a Catholic apologist, she was an historian and oversaw the French national archives for a spell. She's written a few books, I've read three. I'm fairly certain in her book "procedure" is spelled correctly...

By not looking at the whole picture, you are harming your credibility.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1103736' date='Oct 28 2006, 11:29 PM']
"The institution of the Inquisition itself was not without its positive side in the concrete reality of life. It substituted the procedure of inquiry for the procedrue of accusation. But above all, at a time when the people were not disposed to trifle with heretics, it introduced a regular justice."
Those Terrible Middle Ages by Regine Pernoud.
Regine was not a Catholic apologist, she was an historian and oversaw the French national archives for a spell. She's written a few books, I've read three. I'm fairly certain in her book "procedure" is spelled correctly...

By not looking at the whole picture, you are harming your credibility.
[/quote]

Pernoud is a brilliant historian, and I very much agree with what she is saying in that quote. Until the inquisitorial courts of the 13th century, a complaint had to be brought by an injured party in order for the judicial authorities to take any action. So, if someone found a murdered body, but the family didn't know about it to bring a complain against a particular party, no action would be taken. When the inquisition introduced the notion of the state looking for crimes and criminals actively, rather than having cases brought to them while they stood by passively, it permitted the development of the modern system of criminal justice in which the state prosecutes crimes committed even without complaints from citizens. This system has a good deal of potential for abuse, but we clearly prefer it to the old system, otherwise we wouldn't be using it.

[Winchester]

Wow, you know Pernoud! I cannot read her in the original French because I am a consummate Ugly American in my knowledge of other languages. My loss.

If I recall, all the inquisitions kept the Roman approach regarding guilt, though.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1103748' date='Oct 28 2006, 11:39 PM']
Wow, you know Pernoud! I cannot read her in the original French because I am a consummate Ugly American in my knowledge of other languages. My loss.

If I recall, all the inquisitions kept the Roman approach regarding guilt, though.
[/quote]

The inquisitions had a great many flaws, but they were by no means without protections for the accused. For example, there was limited right to counsel in many inquisitions during the middle ages. In addition, while the accused did NOT have the write to know the accuser, the inquisitors would ask the accused who might have cause to bear false witness against them. They would then be certain to scrutinize those people in greater detail. In addition, confessions made under torture had to be verified later without threat of torture.

I've read some Pernoud in the original French. She's quite good.

[Winchester]

I could have learnt French in high school, but I had important sleep to catch up on.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103150' date='Oct 28 2006, 11:16 AM']
Some how I dont buy its all the Protestants fault line...{they made up all these myths}, seems to be a far too handy excuse.

Why wouldnt Rome be invested in covering up the Inquisitions and cleaning up their own history?

This is not a way a real church would act. A true church would ADMIT and REPENT of its sins.
[/quote]

Budge,

"I don't buy that the Protestants made up all these myths about the Spanish Inquisition"; therefore it isn't true, the facts of history notwithstanding. If I say it isn't true, it isn't.

"This is not a way a real church would act"; therefore, since the Catholic Church doesn't act the way I think it should, it is not a real church. I am the judge of what's "real" and "true."

Now that's what I call clear thinking. Not!

A little knowledge of history and logic does a body a world of good.

------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Eutychus]

I suppose that one thread saying the BBC was *TOTALLY UNRELIABLE* means that THIS report saying the Catholic Inquisition wasn't "so bad" is equally unreliable?

[i]{ or is this one more case of a ONE WAY bias in action? }[/i]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=59742"]BBC UNRELIABLE THREAD LINK[/url]

Edited October 29, 2006 by Eutychus

[Guest T-Bone]

That must be your brain that's asleep.

Different people have different opinions and ideas. Not that Kathlikos has not called the BBC unreliable, and cmother has not commented on the reliablity of said program. Are you daft or just purposefully obstinate?