Groo the Wanderer Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1103101' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:01 AM'] show one of those threads on phatmass, please... most folks on phatmass do not use cut and pastes (except sparingly when they find a good website or artical which explains better than they think they personally could); with the exception of Budge and Euty.. oh... sorry... that's you isn't it? [/quote] lorf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 How many Catholics NOW in the pews really are NON-Catholics? The Catholics I meet and know IRL are far different then ones on Catholic apologetic boards, in fact the people IRL are far different. I never expect the typical pew Catholic to start defending the Inquisitions, some definitely have a mish-mash of truth and Catholic and other deceptions in their lives. Here in America there is still some exposure to the gospel from other sources. I know a Catholic who watches Christian television, and believes salvation is by faith, but who is too scared to leave the Catholic Church because it would upset her mother. I know a Catholic who is bisexual, pro-choice, and considers herself a "good Catholic". I know a recent Catholic convert {married within the church recently} who has told me they realize much of Catholicism is man-made. I know at least 2 Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, and when I explained to them what it was, said they still dont believe it. I know another who does not believe in Purgatory. My last priest rejected Mary as Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix and openly said so to me. One guy on my board always says there is one Catholicism for every Catholic. So where is the line where these folks cease to be Catholic? How many doctrines or dogmas do you have to reject to be considered a heretic? One? Is the Catholic who rejects Purgatory still a Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103148' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:11 PM'] How many Catholics NOW in the pews really are NON-Catholics? The Catholics I meet and know IRL are far different then ones on Catholic apologetic boards, in fact the people IRL are far different. I never expect the typical pew Catholic to start defending the Inquisitions, some definitely have a mish-mash of truth and Catholic and other deceptions in their lives. Here in America there is still some exposure to the gospel from other sources. I know a Catholic who watches Christian television, and believes salvation is by faith, but who is too scared to leave the Catholic Church because it would upset her mother. I know a Catholic who is bisexual, pro-choice, and considers herself a "good Catholic". I know a recent Catholic convert {married within the church recently} who has told me they realize much of Catholicism is man-made. I know at least 2 Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, and when I explained to them what it was, said they still dont believe it. I know another who does not believe in Purgatory. My last priest rejected Mary as Co-Redemptrix/Mediatrix and openly said so to me. One guy on my board always says there is one Catholicism for every Catholic. So where is the line where these folks cease to be Catholic? How many doctrines or dogmas do you have to reject to be considered a heretic? One? Is the Catholic who rejects Purgatory still a Catholic? [/quote] The sins of her members are not the sins of the Church. We can know the Church because it is where the saints in heaven are with the sinners on earth at the Feast of the Lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 You didnt answer my question. Actually Ill take the sinful cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart [and WON'T defend things like the Inquisition] over the gung-ho Pious Papal crusader who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread. I believe the closest one becomes to any false religion the darker it turns one's heart. I know the majority of the people in the pews were just like I was, not knowing Biblical truths, being led down a foggy maze without the light of God's Word. So Ill ask the question again in different way.. Catholic A rejects purgatory...are they still Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103162' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:28 PM'] You didnt answer my question. Actually Ill take the sinful cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart [and WON'T defend things like the Inquisition] over the gung-ho Pious Papal crusader who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread. I believe the closest one becomes to any false religion the darker it turns one's heart. I know the majority of the people in the pews were just like I was, not knowing Biblical truths, being led down a foggy maze without the light of God's Word. So Ill ask the question again in different way.. Catholic A rejects purgatory...are they still Catholic? [/quote] Well of course you would so you can confuse and decieve them with your lies about the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103162' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:28 PM'] You didnt answer my question. [/quote] I wasn't trying to. I was referring to the earlier part of your post. [quote]Actually Ill take the sinful cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart [and WON'T defend things like the Inquisition] over the gung-ho Pious Papal crusader who thinks they were the best thing since sliced bread. I believe the closest one becomes to any false religion the darker it turns one's heart. I know the majority of the people in the pews were just like I was, not knowing Biblical truths, being led down a foggy maze without the light of God's Word. So Ill ask the question again in different way.. Catholic A rejects purgatory...are they still Catholic?[/quote] [b]CCC 2089:[/b] [i]Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."[/i] If they obstinately doubt or deny the truth of the Church after having been baptized, yes, they are heretics, but this implies that a person knows what the Church teaches and that the Church has the authority to teach it, and so one can't simply judge in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Actually the cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart and whose conscience hasnt been seared, {I consider those who defend things like the Inquisitions definitely showing a sign of a seared conscience} ARE more open to the gospel. You are correct about that. There are some Catholics Ive met who are more Protestants in Catholic garb who really believe more as Christians then Catholics. I know those folks are out there too. I know for a fact that the online Catholic world does not match that of the normal Catholic in the pews. In fact even though I am online here quite a bit, I know there is a world of difference between the erudite world of Catholic bloggers, message boards, clergy and Papal defenders and the average Joe and Mary Catholic in the pews. When I witness to Catholics IRL, I dont care about having them become Baptists or even leaving the Catholic Church-I figure that will be the Holy Spirits doing, it even took me a few months to finally make the first steps out the door. What I care about is that they learn the gospel and know the true good news of the gospel and truth faith in Jesus Christ, not putting any trust in any religious system to save them {I tell the same thing to Mormons I encounter} You may call that a lie, or even the other Biblical things I may share with them....but it is truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103173' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:38 PM'] There are some Catholics Ive met who are more Protestants in Catholic garb who really believe more as Christians then Catholics. I know those folks are out there too. [/quote] You wouldn't know. You don't even know what Catholics believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote]You don't even know what Catholics believe.[/quote] Considering unlike most of the pew Catholics Ive actually read most of the CCC, and dozens of encyclicals..... I think I know better then most of the Catholics themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103182' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:45 PM'] Considering unlike most of the pew Catholics Ive actually read most of the CCC, and dozens of encyclicals..... I think I know better then most of the Catholics themselves. [/quote] Your posts don't reflect it. 90% of your accusations against the Church are dead wrong from the start, the other 10% are misunderstandings (on your part) of the applications of Catholic doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103173' date='Oct 28 2006, 09:38 AM'] Actually the cafeteria Catholic who still [b]has a heart [/b]and whose conscience hasnt been seared, {I consider those who defend things like the Inquisitions definitely showing a sign of a seared conscience} ARE more open to the gospel. You are correct about that. [/quote] [quote]The Bible itself says the heart is a decietful thing.[/quote] So a Catholic has to be deceived into believing Budge's version of the Gospel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1103182' date='Oct 28 2006, 10:45 AM'] Considering unlike most of the pew Catholics Ive actually read most of the CCC, and dozens of encyclicals..... I think I know better then most of the Catholics themselves. [/quote] Your posts show otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 [quote]Actually the cafeteria Catholic who still has a heart and whose conscience hasnt been seared, {I consider those who defend things like the Inquisitions definitely showing a sign of a seared conscience} ARE more open to the gospel. You are correct about that.[/quote] You're still on about something you've made up in your head. Or you're a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Honestly people who defend the Inquisition creep me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 That's because you've made no attempt to read the posts. You act as though there was no good in the various inquisitions. You're being a fool. Not the fun kind who by satire exposes truth, but the sad kind, who by passing the truth destroys widsom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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