cappie Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) - A Canadian city under pressure for alleged sexual harassment within its fire department has ordered firefighters to wear only boxer-style underwear. Richmond, British Columbia will spend C$16,000 ($14,200) to buy six pairs of underwear for each firefighter in a bid to make firehalls in the suburb of Vancouver more gender neutral, a newspaper reported on Tuesday. "We supply firefighters with various pieces of gear such as gloves, now it's underwear," city official Ted Townsend told the Vancouver Sun, saying it was part of the "integration of the sexes in the workplace." A recent investigation of the department described its workplace culture as "characterized by juvenile and hostile behavior" toward female firefighters by their male colleagues. Firefighters strip off most of their clothes in order to don protective gear when responding to fire alarms, although Townsend said the city is considering buying gear that can be put on over regular uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Of course, they could just have women and men belong to different firehouses...but no, that would be separation of the sexes and not integration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 The only thing I have to take off to don my gear is my shoes. It's a good idea to pull out your wallet, too, but not neccesary. Never heard of gear that you need to pull off clothes to put on. Clothes are part of the protective ensemble, giving more air between you and the outer shell, which gets hot enough to burn the heck out of you. The newer crops of firefighters seem to have more sissies among them. They don't like to follow orders, they think they deserve the same treatment and privileges as veterans and higher ranking members, they don't believe they should be teased or picked on... the list goes on. Newsflash: We behave in a juvenile fashion toward every firefighter. The problem is when someone who doesn't fit in the station comes in and gets offended, or when the behaviour gets out of hand and can't be solved at the station level for whatever reason. Separating the sexes by station would be a mistake for a different reason. There is already tension and further separation is ill-advised. Multiple stations make fires together, so they will be separated only to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 + I've realized that if God decides to do something as unexpected as he could possibly do, he'll probably have me marry and not just anyone, but a fireman. Seriously, I think firemen are great. Furthermore, I think it's rather odd that women have assumed the occupation. I'm a gender roles traditionalist -I think some occupations, due to strength, etc. are just more appropriate for men. Practically, it makes sense for this to be a male occupation. Not that there should be laws and such, but I'm inclined to think women will come around to "getting" it because of the natural law reasons behind it. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 People aren't monoliths. There will always be women who want to be firefighters--and there will be those who can't cut it. The trick is to not lower standard to help people feel good about themselves at the expense of firefighters and citizens. This tendency causes more problems than chauvenism and machismo. My daughter right now talks about being a firefighter. I took her to an apartment fire the other day and she said it looked fun to go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Yeah, I don't want to sound like I don't think its ok for women to be firefighters, but when it comes right down to it... I really think the job is best suited to men. If both my husband and I were firefighters I know for fact there would be tons of stuff he could do that I couldn't. Women firefighters don't make alot of sense to me... [quote name='Winchester' post='1101549' date='Oct 26 2006, 02:32 PM'] People aren't monoliths. There will always be women who want to be firefighters--and there will be those who can't cut it. The trick is to not lower standard to help people feel good about themselves at the expense of firefighters and citizens. This tendency causes more problems than chauvenism and machismo. My daughter right now talks about being a firefighter. I took her to an apartment fire the other day and she said it looked fun to go in. [/quote] This I totally agree with. If a woman can do the job without lowering standards have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1101533' date='Oct 26 2006, 02:02 PM'] The only thing I have to take off to don my gear is my shoes. It's a good idea to pull out your wallet, too, but not neccesary. Never heard of gear that you need to pull off clothes to put on. Clothes are part of the protective ensemble, giving more air between you and the outer shell, which gets hot enough to burn the heck out of you. The newer crops of firefighters seem to have more sissies among them. They don't like to follow orders, they think they deserve the same treatment and privileges as veterans and higher ranking members, they don't believe they should be teased or picked on... the list goes on. Newsflash: We behave in a juvenile fashion toward every firefighter. The problem is when someone who doesn't fit in the station comes in and gets offended, or when the behaviour gets out of hand and can't be solved at the station level for whatever reason. Separating the sexes by station would be a mistake for a different reason. There is already tension and further separation is ill-advised. Multiple stations make fires together, so they will be separated only to a degree. [/quote] I didn't know you were a firefighter. That interesting. Professional or volunteer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' post='1101549' date='Oct 26 2006, 11:32 AM'] People aren't monoliths. There will always be women who want to be firefighters--and there will be those who can't cut it. The trick is to not lower standard to help people feel good about themselves at the expense of firefighters and citizens. This tendency causes more problems than chauvenism and machismo. My daughter right now talks about being a firefighter. I took her to an apartment fire the other day and she said it looked fun to go in. [/quote] + Amen. Wow! -It looked "fun"? That's not something I would have thought! Please don't answer this online, but a question I wonder from a psychological standpoint is about her relationship with your wife, ie, the kind of bonding they have and the example of mother and wife that she has. Again, I am NOT saying you should post this online, but from a purely psychological standpoint, those would be interesting things to explore in a young girl, who seriously wished to emulate the career path of her father.Or, depending on the age, it could be an, "ooh, pretty colors, I want to go in!" kind of thing. By the way, this isn't at all meant to be offensive -so I hope it's not. It's always dangerous to speculate on psychology when it relates to real people. Regardless, I'm not saying they're good people. Edited October 26, 2006 by Veritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Not offended at all. She cries when she has to leave mommy, she plays princess tea party, only recently consented to wear pants without being ordered (including "skorts") She also plays with Star Wars toys, invited Darth Vader to two of ther birthday parties (he came, BTW) and as a pretty decent hitter (fist, not bat.) She throws like a girl. She climbs, jumps, doesn't swear, likes having long hair, wants pierced ears, painted toe and fingernails and makeup. She's a complex little animal. She's four years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1101549' date='Oct 26 2006, 01:32 PM'] People aren't monoliths. There will always be women who want to be firefighters--and there will be those who can't cut it. The trick is to not lower standard to help people feel good about themselves at the expense of firefighters and citizens. This tendency causes more problems than chauvenism and machismo. My daughter right now talks about being a firefighter. I took her to an apartment fire the other day and she said it looked fun to go in. [/quote] Do you fight fire with fire? [img]http://www.secretarmies.com/images/day_flame.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' post='1101581' date='Oct 26 2006, 11:57 AM'] Not offended at all. She cries when she has to leave mommy, she plays princess tea party, only recently consented to wear pants without being ordered (including "skorts") She also plays with Star Wars toys, invited Darth Vader to two of ther birthday parties (he came, BTW) and as a pretty decent hitter (fist, not bat.) She throws like a girl. She climbs, jumps, doesn't swear, likes having long hair, wants pierced ears, painted toe and fingernails and makeup. She's a complex little animal. She's four years old. [/quote] + VERY cute. Darth Vader still scares me. Oh, and by the way, the post above is supposed to say I'm not saying they're NOT good people -it would be terribly harsh the other way! There was an interesting show on public television last night. It was a british study regarding "Brain Sex" (as in "Brain Gender".They were very clear that regardless, this had nothing to do with one's sexuality. So, it wasn't a gender adrogny, seeking to defend homosexuality thing. It had a lot to do with testosterone levels during a person's time in the womb. Perhaps most interesting, was that they were able to gauge this by individual's hand prints! Somehow, there is a record of it in our hands! It revealed that most men do have "male" brains and most women "female" brains, which give us the gifts we generally associate with men -spacial skills and women -emotional and language skills. However, it was more complex than these two things and most individuals have traits from each depending on the different testosterone levels during the different developmental stages in the womb. It was truly informative. Edited October 26, 2006 by Veritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Water works better. [url="http://station46.com/winfree_video_0001.htm"]video from 46's district[/url] I was driving engine 25 on this one. This is a good representation of our tactics. I am not in there. I am somewhere outside getting tools and waiting for my Captain to get out of there. [url="http://station46.com/St%20Augustine%20video.htm"]My current crew[/url] I was pumping on this fire. Again, I'm outside. When you hear someone say "You're out of water," that person is an idiot. The pumper revving was due to people shutting lines down too fast. The current pumper, while excellent in most other ways, does not tolerate three lines operating at once very well. We already had water before that moment, or I wouldn't have been walking around checking where my Captain had gone in. Good videos are hard to come by. These are two and one year old, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1101581' date='Oct 26 2006, 02:57 PM'] Not offended at all. She cries when she has to leave mommy, she plays princess tea party, only recently consented to wear pants without being ordered (including "skorts") She also plays with Star Wars toys, invited Darth Vader to two of ther birthday parties (he came, BTW) and as a pretty decent hitter (fist, not bat.) She throws like a girl. She climbs, jumps, doesn't swear, likes having long hair, wants pierced ears, painted toe and fingernails and makeup. She's a complex little animal. She's four years old. [/quote] Sounds incredibly like my 3 year old. lol (minus the whole Darth Vader thing, my 20 year old brother has a Darth Vader mask and he's scared her with it. She will wear pants, but if we're at home she changes into anything resembling a tutu within a very short while.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 winchester, your little girl sounds very cute! : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanctifyMe Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 [font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][font="Comic Sans Ms"][color="#663366"]Ok...so... people dream up a new issue every day (sigh)... I have been involved in firefighting and ems since 2002 and; (i am a girl! gasp)... We are held to the same and equal standard as the men; standards are not reduced...as they should not be, lives depend on it! Many of the tasks a firefighter performs are technique oriented...i am a living testament to this; Work out; go to the gym, run, train....learn the technique, some can do it, others can not. All of the places i have worked and trained..there was no 'gender hostility', work hard, do your job...and enjoy your down time. It is an awesome job..one of the best serving others...the rest is just DRAMA! Peace~ lisa[/color I have a great firefighting picture to add to this...but i can not figure out how to put pictures in my posts...oh well..[/color][/font][/size][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now