Conservative Public Schooling...

[Lounge Daddy]

After the charter schoold pushed bigtime...

Specialized schooling has been pushing academically and commercially …and here in West Michigan, this revolution has been largely taking place, teachers unions be damned (unlike the east side of the state) …
I would like to think that the traditional government school would be phased out completely…

[url="http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5585296"]THIS IS THE ARTICLE I AM VIEWING AS I WRITE THIS...[/url]

can we phase out the goverment school system?

[homeschoolmom]

I'm a big fan of lots of educational choices. As long as there's a monopoly on education, there will be no improvement.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1100955' date='Oct 25 2006, 03:51 PM']can we phase out the goverment school system?[/quote]
I don't get it. Are you saying there should be no public education, and everyone who wants an education has to pay to attend a private school? Or are you talking about changing the WAY public education is organized?

[quote]Education then, beyond all other devices of human origin, is the great equalizer of the conditions of men, the balance-wheel of the social machinery.

--Horace Mann[/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

I would love to see the teacher's unions eliminated and the entire system privitized

The government is good for defending our freedom, and has no buisness doing anything else - including educating our children with government schools.

[Era Might]

Ok. Well, I'm glad I had an education despite my family's inability to send me to a private school. The citizens are the backbone of society. For the state not to invest in the education of its citizens is like the state not investing in highways and other public works necessities. I hope the state doesn't stop building roads and highways and do nothing but send people to fight wars. Democracy doesn't work well when the citizens don't have a basic education.

[Lounge Daddy]

lol - it's not that extreme

Here in Grand Rapids it’s very easy to send your children to many privatized “specialty” or charter schools… it works like a voucher program and costs nothing more than what you already pay via taxes.
…the tax money is redirected toward the privatized school that you choose to send you child to.

This is more like should be every where, and it makes the standard model government schools obsolete, wouldn’t you say?




(Of course, I still would rather completely eliminating tax funding for all schools outright)

[homeschoolmom]

What other charter schools do you have there, LD? I saw the segrigated one...

in our area, we have a "classical" charter school. The year it opened it was really tempting to send the kids there (HStot had just been born). But then I looked over my list of reasons we HS and couldn't do it. The hours of the school were long (8-4:30) and it was year round. Too much time spent away from the family. So... yeah.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1101412' date='Oct 26 2006, 08:09 AM']
What other charter schools do you have there, LD? I saw the segrigated one...

in our area, we have a "classical" charter school. The year it opened it was really tempting to send the kids there (HStot had just been born). But then I looked over my list of reasons we HS and couldn't do it. The hours of the school were long (8-4:30) and it was year round. Too much time spent away from the family. So... yeah.
[/quote]
I love classical schools. I have several friends who teach at one in Indianapolis, and when I hear them talk about what they cover in class it makes me wish I could go back and do school all over again.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1101411' date='Oct 26 2006, 09:08 AM']lol - it's not that extreme

Here in Grand Rapids it’s very easy to send your children to many privatized “specialty” or charter schools… it works like a voucher program and costs nothing more than what you already pay via taxes.
…the tax money is redirected toward the privatized school that you choose to send you child to.

This is more like should be every where, and it makes the standard model government schools obsolete, wouldn’t you say?

(Of course, I still would rather completely eliminating tax funding for all schools outright)[/quote]
Well, that's another matter, having tax money redirected to fund attendance at a private school. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that, but I think it does present problems of its own, such as the quality of the school (there would have to be some kind of credential system in place), and ultimately those private schools would just be overrun by public students, and they would face the same problems that public schools face with lack of resources.

But, I absolutely could not support the idea that the government does not provide for the education of its citizens through taxes, anymore than I could support the idea that the government has no responsibility to create public roads. Education is one of the most basic and essential needs of society, and it makes sense for the state to educate its citizens in some way (whether vouchers or public schools of its own). An uneducated populace does not make for a good economy, or a good work force. There would be a lot of uneducated soldiers defending our country, unless the military decides to spend money to teach math to new recruits who never learned basic math, which would destroy the whole point of not spending tax money in the first place.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1101427' date='Oct 26 2006, 09:31 AM']
Well, that's another matter, having tax money redirected to fund attendance at a private school. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that, but I think it does present problems of its own, such as the quality of the school (there would have to be some kind of credential system in place), and ultimately those private schools would just be overrun by public students, and they would face the same problems that public schools face with lack of resources.

But, I absolutely could not support the idea that the government does not provide for the education of its citizens through taxes, anymore than I could support the idea that the government has no responsibility to create public roads. Education is one of the most basic and essential needs of society, and it makes sense for the state to educate its citizens in some way (whether vouchers or public schools of its own). An uneducated populace does not make for a good economy, or a good work force. There would be a lot of uneducated soldiers defending our country, unless the military decides to spend money to teach math to new recruits who never learned basic math, which would destroy the whole point of not spending tax money in the first place.
[/quote]
I'm hard pressed to think of any PMer who would advocate for the abandonment of tax dollars used to fund education. I think that breaking the monopoly that public schools have is a good thing. The money should follow the students. It will make all the schools, public and private, better.

[Lounge Daddy]

So fine, Era… you trust the government to educate, feed, and cloth the people
I say the government should never be expected to cloth the naked, feed the hungry, nor (especially) educate our children.

That is all the place of communities, local charities, and church groups… who all do it better than government, I must ad.

Any government big enough to do all that is big enough to take it all away.
And our government that has banned God from all schools are NOT to be trusted (and in most places the government schools system is the ONLY system) …so today we have death and chaos as a product of government institutions … *---suicide is the leading cause of death among young people today, it used to be car accidents

[Era Might]

Should the government create roads and highways and bridges and levees? Should private citizens create these things? I don't see how the government's only responsibility is military defense.

Yes, the government could take what it provides away. It could take its military defense away too.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1101473' date='Oct 26 2006, 11:17 AM']
I'm hard pressed to think of any PMer who would advocate for the abandonment of tax dollars used to fund education. I think that breaking the monopoly that public schools have is a good thing. The money should follow the students. It will make all the schools, public and private, better.
[/quote]

Amen, HSmom

[Era Might]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1101473' date='Oct 26 2006, 11:17 AM']I'm hard pressed to think of any PMer who would advocate for the abandonment of tax dollars used to fund education. I think that breaking the monopoly that public schools have is a good thing. The money should follow the students. It will make all the schools, public and private, better.[/quote]
Did I misunderstand? I thought this is precisely what Lounge Daddy is advocating:

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1101411' date='Oct 26 2006, 09:08 AM'](Of course, I still would rather completely eliminating tax funding for all schools outright)[/quote]

[son_of_angels]

While I'm not an expert in educational funding, it seems to me that the public pays tax monies, not for THEIR child's education, but towards the public fund in order to fund educational initiatives and programs, including the public school system, within their district. I do not believe that the wealthiest members of a society, who can afford to send their kids to private school, should somehow be exempt from paying into the public school program, nor should a system be devised which, basically, is based on the false understanding that the education of children somehow does not have a public element to it. On this basis, I am opposed to programs which grant tax exemptions or redirect funds towards private schools from schools which operate for the good of the child.

On the other hand, I might not be opposed to ending the public school system altogether, with publicly funded scholarship and need-based programs (similar to the College programs), and which end the districting of students into particular educational districts. This would, for justice's sake, necessitate recognizing the equality of both religious and non-religious schools, though some schools certainly could be subsidized.