Without Jesus - Salvation Question

[megamattman1]

I know Jesus says that you're saved if you believe, but think about where he says that if you explicitly DON"T believe, you're condemned.

He says those who don't believe the gospel will be condemned, yes. The definition of gospel could be disputed but beyond that. Around John 3:18 he says that those who didn't live in truth (must be love/honesty) wouldn't come to Jesus (the light) and in fact reject it. He doesn't mention if they lived in truth and didn't see the light or it was presented in a way not conducive to faith due to the errors of its messengers (us).

Also Jesus said to love God and neighbor and you'd live. Coudln't God be God in gereral such as the Jewish belief. But perhaps you'd say that we can't love as we ought. Wouldn't Jesus's saving grace go beyond our act of faith?

The bible isn't that big on the unbelievers anyway. And to me since you can interpret scripture however you want, putting the blame on Jesus to be condemning is only reflective of yourself. And if it clearly was Jesus's teaching, why in the world would you want to believe in Him if a rationale answer for putting people in hell who love God and neighbor more than a believer doesn't exist?

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Wonderful explanation JasJis, and everyone else.

Our God is a Merciful God. A God of Love and Understanding. If a person, by no fault of their own, has no clue on who Jesus is, but is a selfless person. Constantly helping the needy, living as if they are 'Third'. Will be shown mercy by Christ when they die.

I know what I said was mentioned already, just thought id try to clearify again so that there wont be another "Im just not getting it" answer.

God Bless,

CatholicAndFanatical

[ironmonk]

Bruce...

The Scripture tells us that ALL men will go before Christ in Judgment.

Those who have not heard of Christ, will learn of Him then, they will have a chance to accept Christ or deny Christ.

God sent His only Son to be tortured and murdered on Earth... do you really think that God would condemn people to Hell who never had a chance to hear the Word?

The Scriptures say otherwise...

Romans 2:12

All who sin outside the law will also perish without reference to it, and all who sin under the law will be judged in accordance with it.

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.

15 They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, 6 while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them

16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus.

Christ is about love and giving people a chance to Love Him.

It's time to learn about Christ and stop with all the judging.

Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

Edited January 13, 2004 by ironmonk

[Donna]

Whosoever dies in the state of (habitual or sanctifying) grace will be saved. Whosoever does not, will not be saved.

PS:

"According to my gospel..." Ironmonk quotes St. Paul.

And all this time I thought it was Jesus' gospel you Prots and we Catholic Church's follow.

[Aloysius]

i'm in a Bible-quoting mood today

Matthew 7:21

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Matthew 25:34

Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

36

naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'

37

Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

38

When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

39

When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'

40

And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'

those ppl whom Christ is saving are ppl who did not even necessarily know Him. if they had truly known Him, they would have known His words and known that when they did something for His least brothers they did it for Him. but some people live God's law through the dictates of their own conscience not knowing that they were pleasing Christ, and not knowing that Christ was saving them, and in fact not knowing the Gospel of Christ at all (because sometimes US CHRISTIANS do a crappy job of showing them)... yet they are brought into the kingdom of Heaven for they have followed the moral law embedded in everyone's hearts

Romans 2:14

For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.

15

They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, 6 while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them

16

on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[1] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

:shield:

[jasJis]

Good job, Al. You re-posted what IronMonk and I did. (Not that it's not worth repeating....)

You're a bible quoting freak. :freak:

::

Edited January 13, 2004 by jasJis

[Aloysius]

:ph34r:ooppss

sometimes i'm too lazy to read our arguments, just what the opposite side says :cool: