Is It Always Uncharitable To Be Harsh On Phatmass?

[thessalonian]

I have been accused of lack of charity by some because sometimes my words are harsh for those who persist in error. I am uncharitable at times I will agree but is harshness always uncharitable or is it sometimes charity? Consider my post from another thread copied below:


False teaching by those who have had plenty of opportunity to come to the truth does not require niceties. It is charitable to be harsh at times as Jesus did with the scribes and pharasees, calling them a brood of vipers, false teaches, blind guides among other things. You say I am uncharitable. It is your perogative to think so, but it is not charitable to allow someone to lead people in to a ditch. That was the very reason Jesus was harsh with the scribes and pharasees. If I didn't care about you Brian (I do, but I also care for those whom you lead with your errors and twistings of scripture), I would try the Rodney King approach that Jesuspaidtheprice and everyone else wants me to try. It has it's place at times but not at this time. You have been stubornly persistent in your error.

Those of you who accuse me of uncharity accuse Jesus of the same. His words here were much sharper than mine:

11: He who is greatest among you shall be your servant;

12: whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13: "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

15: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

16: "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, `If any one swears by the temple, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'

17: You blind geniuses! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred?

18: And you say, `If any one swears by the altar, it is nothing; but if any one swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.'

19: You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

20: So he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by everything on it;

21: and he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by him who dwells in it;

22: and he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

23: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

24: You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

25: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity.

26: You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

28: So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,

30: saying, `If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'

31: Thus you witness against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Discuss.

Blessings

Edited October 24, 2006 by thessalonian

[Thy Geekdom Come]

We must remember that only Jesus can read hearts, not us. Unless it is plainly obvious that a person is malicious or wicked or in need of some harsh correction, it must be our assumption that they need a gentle treatment. We, like Christ, must bend the stalk without breaking it.

That said, I don't know that I would be harsh. We don't want to be abrasive, but we do need to be firm. We need to make it known that we are not moving. Sometimes, when it comes down to it, I believe we need to state things very clearly (this is good, this is bad, you are advocating the bad and here's why...but here's how you can fix it...here's your hope), standing firmly on our argument so that a person may not go to the side of us and avoid the truth we are presenting, but may only either accept it or cower from it, but there is no real need to stand firmly and kick them unless we can know as Jesus knew that they need a swift kick in the pants.

I suppose this goes to semantics over the difference between being harsh and being firm.

I know I've been harsh before and sometimes when I mean only to be firm people take me as harsh.

[homeschoolmom]

Depends on your motive.

[123]

[quote]I have been accused of lack of charity by some because sometimes my words are harsh for those who persist in error. I am uncharitable at times I will agree but is harshness always uncharitable or is it sometimes charity? Consider my post from another thread copied below:[/quote]

Even the most chariable teacher needs to play hardball sometimes. Its happened to me many of times when I was arguing foolishly with Catholic friends ( Forgive me father) And my beloved, never argued with me like I had with me friends. She told me to just shut-up and go to mass one time so I can say: "been there, done that" But the LORD smacked me right in the face, literaly. When I walked into the parish I walked face first into a crucifix, no blood just alot of pain. And now here I am.

[123]

[quote]I have been accused of lack of charity by some because sometimes my words are harsh for those who persist in error. I am uncharitable at times I will agree but is harshness always uncharitable or is it sometimes charity? Consider my post from another thread copied below:[/quote]

Even the most chariable teacher needs to play hardball sometimes. Its happened to me many of times when I was arguing foolishly with Catholic friends ( Forgive me father) And my beloved, never argued with me like I had with me friends. She told me to just shut-up and go to mass one time so I can say: "been there, done that" But the LORD smacked me right in the face, literaly. When I walked into the parish I walked face first into a crucifix, no blood just alot of pain. And now here I am.

[thessalonian]

Thx for your testimony GC. I think it is what I am talking about.

Raph,

I understand where you are coming from. And I agree that harshness should be used sparingly. But first of all Jesus did not speak of individuals when he lambasted the scribes and the pharasees. He broadbrushed them. I think his concern was more for those they were leading astray than for the scribes and pharasees themselves. Yet I also believe his harshness was in charity to them as well and we must discern that at times as well. I think of Stephen and his harsh words that got him killed in Acts 8. Once again he addressed a group and rebuked them ALL, not discerning individual hearts. One in that group we know was a man named Saul. I have often thought how much influence did Stephen's harsh words play in convicting him later on down the road?

Edited October 24, 2006 by thessalonian

[CatholicCid]

Tough love is necessary at times. Some people won't see the truth unless it is put directly infront of them in a prompt manner... Some refuse to see the truth even then.

[123]

[quote] understand where you are coming from. And I agree that harshness should be used sparingly. But first of all Jesus did not speak of individuals when he lambasted the scribes and the pharasees[/quote]

No, Jesus didnt, but St. John the Baptizer did, and did he not baptize Christ? Sometimes we do need to assert ( of course in defense) the brood of vipers, the modern day false prophets which seek to crucify Christ again. We have the Sacred Words of GOD to help us in correcting each other, I'll be the first one to admit that I am wrong, alot and I need brothers to help me get back on track we have been given the Scriptures to do that. We must work together in love and that means helping, correcting, learning, and teaching. We must teach out of love, and when we play hard ball we do not begin to hate the person we are just more adamant. There is no inherent uncharitableness in working hard to help someone, who is mislead drasitcally, understand.

Yeah, I will never forget that huge crucifix. And when I hit it I had no idea what it was until I looked up and I would have liked to fall on my knees, because I had never seen a crucifix before. The pain in my nose and face ran straight to my heart.

Edited October 24, 2006 by GloriaIesusChristi