The Myth Of The Spanish Inquisition

[suuran]

Good post. I did some research on this a while back, and I recall that there was one brief period when several hundred people were executed before the Inquisition was reformed...not sure about the details, though. Besides that, the Inquisition was there to [i]clear[/i] charges of heresy, not ruthlessly introduce new ones.

In fairness to Protestants, though, I rarely hear Inquisition talk from them. That stuff more often issues from the mouths of militant atheists while they're talking about how religion is the greatest evil in human history (Dawkins actually proposes that--his latest book is called The God Delusion).

Anyway, thanks again for the reality check!

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Romans1513' post='1102155' date='Oct 27 2006, 12:46 AM']
Ok, this is good and all, that its not so bad as made out to be, but...

3000-5000 people is still a lot. In terms of killing, 1 person is more than it should be. Aren't we against capital punishment? The fifth commandment: "You shall not kill"?

Someone help me out on this one please...

~Katie
[/quote]


From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2267 Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

Now back then there was much greater need for it. It was even used for lesser crimes such as stealing horses. People also took heresy alot more seriously. Heresy was akin to killing the soul which was as bad if not worse than murder of the body.

One should also read Romans 13 in regard to this discussion.

Rom.13
[1]
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.


[2] Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist [b]will incur judgment. [/b]
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
[4] for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not [b]bear the sword in vain[/b]; [b]he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. [/b] [5] Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
[6] For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
[7] Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
[8]
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Edited October 27, 2006 by thessalonian

[Akalyte]

Great thread! Its so good to see ya back Katholikos!

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Jalazar' post='1102467' date='Oct 27 2006, 01:33 PM']
In fairness to Protestants, though, I rarely hear Inquisition talk from them.
[/quote]When I was growing up Protestant, I heard it plenty, plenty (and believed it). And I read it now on the Internet at Protestant websites and in discussion groups incessantly and stridently. Protestants have three favorite weapons to use against Catholics: False versions of the Galileo story, the Inquisiton, and the Crusades.

May God have mercy!

-----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Budge]

Whatever happened to..."We're sorry this ever happened"? instead of constant whitewashes of history? Ive noticed a [b]drop[/b] in the Inquisition numbers claimed by Catholics within the last TWO YEARS of dealing with Catholics online.

How many torture, and burned at the stake victims are ok by Jesus Christ? {Do you seriously think God is going to cut a break on the fact it may have been 2,000, instead of 200,000 or 2 million?}

Ye do not know what Spirit you are of....honestly when Catholics start defending, excusing and praising the Inquisition, you all give me the willies. The Inquisition was definitely of Satan. You really do yourself nor your church no favors with threads like this. Instead of a Catholic with a heart and conscience who would say "The Inquisitions were a horrible thing", here you are defending them!

[Budge]

So is he a myth too?

[url="http://www.bartleby.com/65/to/TorquemaT.html"]TORQUEMADA[/url]

[img]http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rantpix/torquemada.gif[/img]

[quote]Torquemada became confessor to future Queen Isabella, but declined higher office when she rose to the throne. Instead, as Pope Sixtus IV had established the Inquisition in Spain in 1478, in 1483 Torquemada accepted appointment as Grand Inquisitor of Castile and Aragon. With the Pope's blessing, Torquemada was completely in charge of the Spanish Inquisition until his death in 1498.

Never has a man so enjoyed his work! Torquemada developed and employed an elaborate network of spies and secret police to root out heresy. His favorite methods for extracting confessions, nevermind the truth, were to hang the accused by the arms so that the arms were pulled from their joints, to force the swallowing of gallons of water, and to have the joints dislocated on the rack. His methods made him generally unpopular — he had to travel with bodyguards — but no one dared oppose him. Even the Pope could not reign him in: when Sixtus issued a bull absolving conversos of any wrong they might have done, Ferdinand, under Torquemada's influence, refused to enforce it.

The least of his crimes was his twisting of jurisprudence: In 1490 Torquemada oversaw the LaGuardia trial, in which eight Jews and conversos were accused of crucifying a Christian child. No victim was identified, no body ever discovered, but all eight were convicted nevertheless on the strength of confessions obtained by torture. And all were burned at the stake.
[b]
In sum, Torquemada had over 2,000 heretics, Jews and Muslims burned by auto-da-fé, and perhaps 9,000 punished in other ways. The Catholic Encyclopedia tries to mitigate Torquemada's cruelty, saying[/b]:[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

We are defending the TRUTH about the Inquisition, and exposing the myths perpetrated by anti- catholics such as yourself.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103145' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:02 PM']
Whatever happened to..."We're sorry this ever happened"? instead of constant whitewashes of history? Ive noticed a [b]drop[/b] in the Inquisition numbers claimed by Catholics within the last TWO YEARS of dealing with Catholics online.
[/quote]
If we defend it, you will attack us for defending evils; if we apologize, you will say our Gospel is wrong for having committed evils.

The fact is that we defend what needs to be defended and apologize for what needs an apology and both of those are Christian things to do.

[CatholicCid]

Your link seems to be broken... I click it and it leads me to a different page then the one you quoted. Could you fix it?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103154' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:19 PM']
So is he a myth too?

[url="http://www.bartleby.com/65/to/TorquemaT.html"]TORQUEMADA[/url]

[img]http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rantpix/torquemada.gif[/img]
[/quote]
so what are you quoting now, your link only says this:

(tmäs´ d tôrkmä´thä) (KEY) , 1420–98, Spanish churchman and inquisitor. A Dominican, he became confessor to Ferdinand II and Isabella I and in 1483 was appointed inquisitor general of Castile and Aragón, charged with the centralization of the Spanish Inquisition. He was largely instrumental in bringing about the expulsion of the Jews in 1492. His great authority was contested by colleagues and was diminished in some measure by the pope, but he remained preeminent until his death. Torquemada owes his reputation for cruelty to the harsh rules of procedure that he devised for the Inquisition and to the rigor with which he had them enforced.

[Budge]

[quote]

If we defend it, you will attack us for defending evils; if we apologize, you will say our Gospel is wrong for having committed evils.[/quote]

Why not apologize?

I think the Prots {calvinists, puritans} who burned people at the stake also were wrong. They followed the messages of Satan rather then the commandments of Christ.

How hard is that to say?

The Catholic church always seems more intent on protecting and defending ITSELF rather then TRUTH. That is one of the most disturbing qualities about it.

[CatholicCid]

You missed the rest of his post: The fact is that we defend what needs to be defended and apologize for what needs an apology and both of those are Christian things to do.

I know you like to choice which questions you address, but choosing to read only half of other's post is kind of silly and ruiins a debate.

Might you also post the correct link.

Edited October 28, 2006 by CatholicCid

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103165' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:31 PM']
Why not apologize?

I think the Prots {calvinists, puritans} who burned people at the stake also were wrong. They followed the messages of Satan rather then the commandments of Christ.

How hard is that to say?

The Catholic church always seems more intent on protecting and defending ITSELF rather then TRUTH. That is one of the most disturbing qualities about it.
[/quote]
apologize for what??? the sins of individuals?
are you apologizing for all the sins committed by non-catholics??

so its ok for you to separate out act of individual prots and fundies and say they don't rep their Church, but as soon as a catholic does something its up to the Church to apologize??

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1103165' date='Oct 28 2006, 12:31 PM']
Why not apologize?

I think the Prots {calvinists, puritans} who burned people at the stake also were wrong. They followed the messages of Satan rather then the commandments of Christ.

How hard is that to say?

The Catholic church always seems more intent on protecting and defending ITSELF rather then TRUTH. That is one of the most disturbing qualities about it.
[/quote]
You took me out of context and left out the second half of my post. I clearly said that we apologize for that which demands an apology, but defend that which demands defense.

[Budge]

So do you consider the Inquisition and its related acts to be SINS?

{some on here dont, I still remember the 76% vote FOR THE inquisition}