The Quran On Jesus Christ

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1095011' date='Oct 18 2006, 04:14 PM']This thread predates the one you linked to.[/quote]Oops! Didn't see that. Thanks for the correction!

[Guest T-Bone]

No problem.

(I just like to use words like "predate." : )

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='knightofdestiny' post='1094709' date='Oct 18 2006, 09:57 AM']I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun.[/quote]Just FYI, the idea that Europeans thought the earth was flat is a myth.

Second, I have to disagree with your characterization of Islam and heliocentrism. A quick review of medeivel Muslim astronomers on the Wikipedia show them all to be geocentrists. It seems that most followed Ptolomy. Their contributions seem to be founded on translating Greek writings on Astronomy and advancing empirical data on astronomy. I invite you to review these Muslim geocentrist astronomers:
* [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Shatir"]Ibn al-Shatir[/url]
* [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_Al-Rahman_Al_Sufi"]Abd Al-Rahman Al Sufi[/url]
* [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Musa_al-Khwarizmi"]Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi[/url]
* [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulugh_Beg"]Ulugh Beg[/url]

If you'd like, please feel free to respond by listing who you believe are heliocentric Muslim astronomers (pre-Copernicus).

A bit off the topic, but I wanted to mention that Muslims have been pushing quite a bit of "revised history" lately. For example: the myth of the Muslim navigators that allegedly helps Columbus reach America: [url="http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spencer200409150556.asp"]http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/spen...00409150556.asp[/url]

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Church Punk' post='1094810' date='Oct 18 2006, 11:37 AM']
"Here's some pork"
But thats the thing, Muhhamed, didnt even write the Quran, he was Illiterate!
But I thought the Koran teaches that Allah (God) can only be as one (1) divine person... From the confession of faith, you must believe in the oneness of Allah, although he refers to Himself in the Koran usin the first person plural reserved to kings (We), He is an aboslute unity.
[/quote]


Allah is using the royal we! :

[Norseman82]

Good post. This is a "must read". Add to that the fact that Jesus is expected to return at the end of time and not Mohammed, that there is mention made of Mary in the Quran but none of Mohammed's women (that I'm aware of), and there is supposed to be a statement about if you cannot find your answer in the Quran search the other scriptures (aka the Old and New Testaments), these are powerful witnessing and conversion tools. In fact, such statements helped convert a die-hard Muslim preacher to Christ and the Catholic Church in India, according to a story told by Sal Solo.

[mortify]

[quote name='knightofdestiny' post='1094709' date='Oct 18 2006, 07:57 AM']
I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun. LOL, if anyone in this site can convince me that islam is wrong and what you guys call christianity is right i will gladly convert. I am not one to deny the word of god. Off course if you can show me that its truly the word of God.
[/quote]

There are textual variants of Quran and its highly likely we dont have the original.

The Quran never mentions a spherical earth or that the earth rotates around the sun. It describes the earth as being roled out as a carpet (i.e. flat) and states the sun descends in a murky sea (i.e. sun rotates around the earth).

Finally, Islam is intrinsically flawed.

[quote name='ReformationNow' post='9756' date='Jul 27 2003, 08:51 PM']
On Jesus Christ
To followers of Islam, Jesus Christ is nothing more than a prophet of Allah, and Muhammed supersedes Jesus Christ. However, Jesus Christ was sinless(Sura 3:46); performed miracles(Sura 3:49); and was the Messiah(Sura 3:45; 4:157, 171). Muhammed however, was not sinless; did not perform miracles; nor was a Messiah. Islam teaches that Jesus Christ was nothing but a slave on whom Allah showed favor(Sura 43:59); yet, elsewhere, we are told that the Messiah(Jesus Christ) was not a slave(Sura 4:172). Muslim tradition teaches that Christ was taken bodily off of the Cross without having died(Sura 4:157); yet elswhere teaches that Christ died and was resurrected(Sura 199:33).
While scripture never contradicts itself concerning Christ, the Quran does, as is shown above.
[/quote]

Muslims believe Muhammad was sinless.

The Quran does not say Jesus was crucified, but that "it was made to appear to be so" suggesting either an illusion or substitution (most muslims seem to believe in the latter)

Additional contradictions though I wont bother looking up the ayat:
1) Mary is mentioned as part of the trinity
2) In the last supper the apostles ask Jesus for a table and food to descend from heaven
3) There are two accounts of the Angel's visit to Mary

An interesting parallel is Surah Maryam, which seems to be a near verbatim repetition of the beginning of Luke's Gospel.

[musturde]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1094758' date='Oct 18 2006, 09:58 AM']
Thanks, Akalyte. I was hating the thought of giving up my beer to become a muslim. I hope knightofdestiny doesn't produce a notarized document (signed by God) attesting that the Quarn has no flaws and is truely the word of God.
[/quote]
Muslims talk about flaws in our religion just like we talk about flaws in theirs. Many feel they have no contradictions in their holy books just as many of us believe there are none in ours. It's funny how similar we are.

Edited October 22, 2006 by musturde