The Quran On Jesus Christ

[Guest knightofdestiny]

I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun. LOL, if anyone in this site can convince me that islam is wrong and what you guys call christianity is right i will gladly convert. I am not one to deny the word of god. Off course if you can show me that its truly the word of God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='knightofdestiny' post='1094709' date='Oct 18 2006, 09:57 AM']
I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun. LOL, if anyone in this site can convince me that islam is wrong and what you guys call christianity is right i will gladly convert. I am not one to deny the word of god. Off course if you can show me that its truly the word of God.
[/quote]
He just showed you the flaws .
Catholicism was founded on Jesus Christ, not on the bible. The Catholic church preceeded the Bible, which by the way, has not been revised. The Pope is infallible on faith and morals, not science.

[Akalyte]

Muhhamed was smoking some haseesh while he wrote the quran. Yeah he was high. werent there also contradictions concerning the creation of man in the quran. Sorry If I offend the muslims, thats one group im having a very hard time be friendly with. They pop up 600 years after Christianity and decide they are the true religion, of course after burning down monasteries and convents and forcing catholics to convert.

Here's some pork.


1. What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

2. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?

1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

4. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

1. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48). Also 4:116
2. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

5. Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

1. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
2. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
3. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
4. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

6. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?

1. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
2. Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

7. Is wine consumption good or bad?

1. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
2. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
3. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

Edited October 18, 2006 by Akalyte

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='knightofdestiny' post='1094709' date='Oct 18 2006, 09:57 AM']
I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun. LOL, if anyone in this site can convince me that islam is wrong and what you guys call christianity is right i will gladly convert. I am not one to deny the word of god. Off course if you can show me that its truly the word of God.
[/quote]
I get the sense that you're a Muslim. Cool. I'd like to learn more about Islam. I request, however, that you ask us about Christianity, rather than telling us about it. I assure you that we know our faith here.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='knightofdestiny' post='1094709' date='Oct 18 2006, 07:57 AM']
I can't believe were getting in the catholic vs. muslim perspective debate here. All i know is that Islam and the Quran are not flawed. On the other hand the bible has been revised so many times that no one knows if its the truth. Dont forget when the pope was preaching to you guys that the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the world the quran had already stated to muslims that earth is round and that it revolves around the sun. LOL, if anyone in this site can convince me that islam is wrong and what you guys call christianity is right i will gladly convert. I am not one to deny the word of god. Off course if you can show me that its truly the word of God.
[/quote]
If you can show me that the Quaran is not flawed and is truely the word of God, then I will convert ot Islam.

[Akalyte]

Here's more:

1. Creation: The biblical Genesis account says God created all in six days (see Genesis 1:1 - 2:2). The Quran, however, has a real problem here as Surah 41:9, 10, 12 have a total of eight days of creation (4+2+2=8) Meanwhile, Surah 10:3 gives the total number of days of creation as six. This is a problem of self-contradiction.

2. Pharaoh: According to the Quran (Surah 7:120-125) Pharaoh used crucifixion in dealing with the sorcerers - a practice which historical evidence gives no precedent to before the Babylonian Empire. This is once again a problem of historical compression.

3. The Golden Calf: According to the Quran (Surah 20:90-100)a Samaritan helped the Israelites build the golden calf, and it mooed after coming out of the fire. In reality, Samaritans did not exist as a people until at least 1000 years after the time of the Moses and the Israelite exodus from Egypt. Again a problem of historical compression.

4. Judaism: According to the Quran (Surah 9:30) the Jews believe that Ezra is the Son of God - the Messiah. This never has been a tenet of Judaism. This is a clear problem of distorted knowledge of other religions and historical fact.

5. Alexander the Great: According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (b. 356 B.C. - d. 323 B.C.), and believed he was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods. Once again the Quran shows errors in historical and religious fact.

6. The Trinity: According to the Quran (Surah 5:116, 5:73-75) the Christians believe in "three Gods" - Father, Mother, and Son. This shows the influence of heretical 'Christian' sects in central Arabia at the time of Muhammad. In contrast, Christianity has always distinctly stated that the Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The teaching of the Quran on the Trinity has undoubtedly led to confusion among many Muslims on what the Bible (and thus Christianity) teaches about the Triune God.

7. Mary: According to the Quran (Surah 19:28, 3:33-36), Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the daughter of Imran or Amram, the father of Moses and Aaron. Mary is also said to be the sister of Moses and Aaron. Clearly Muhammad confused Mary with Miriam.

[Anomaly]

Thanks, Akalyte. I was hating the thought of giving up my beer to become a muslim. I hope knightofdestiny doesn't produce a notarized document (signed by God) attesting that the Quarn has no flaws and is truely the word of God.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Anomaly

[Church Punk]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1094712' date='Oct 18 2006, 10:15 AM']
Muhhamed was smoking some haseesh while he wrote the quran.....

Here's some pork.
[/quote]

"Here's some pork"


But thats the thing, Muhhamed, didnt even write the Quran, he was Illiterate!

[quote]2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).[/quote]

But I thought the Koran teaches that Allah (God) can only be as one (1) divine person... From the confession of faith, you must believe in the oneness of Allah, although he refers to Himself in the Koran usin the first person plural reserved to kings (We), He is an aboslute unity.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Church Punk

[ruso]

Great post Akalyte.

:applause:

[IcePrincessKRS]

I love how this thread is 3 years old and suddenly at the top page... someone did alot of digging....

[Lounge Daddy]

the Koran contradicts itself A LOT

awesome post, Akalyte

Robert Spenser mentions in his book, “Inside Islam” that when confronted with the many inconstancies of the Koran, and there are many – the typical Muslim response (or dodge) is along the lines of “Allah is great and has no need of consistency.”

how sad

[Church Punk]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1094873' date='Oct 18 2006, 12:57 PM']
the Koran contradicts itself A LOT

awesome post, Akalyte

Robert Spenser mentions in his book, “Inside Islam” that when confronted with the many inconstancies of the Koran, and there are many – the typical Muslim response (or dodge) is along the lines of “Allah is great and has no need of consistency.”

how sad
[/quote]

Or when backed into a corner they will say you are misinterpeting the Koran because you dont speak arabic!

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Church Punk' post='1094902' date='Oct 18 2006, 12:27 PM']
Or when backed into a corner they will say you are misinterpeting the Koran because you dont speak arabic!
[/quote]

yes yes yes! true
did you read this book, also Punk?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='ReformationNow' post='9756' date='Jul 27 2003, 10:51 PM']Muslim tradition teaches that Christ was taken bodily off of the Cross without having died(Sura 4:157); yet elswhere teaches that Christ died and was resurrected(Sura 199:33).[/quote]I think you mean Sura 19:33.


PS: Is this just a repost of the following old thread?
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=642"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=642[/url]

Also, the following is a pretty good apologetic resource written by Evangelical Christians:

[url="http://answering-islam.org/"]http://answering-islam.org/[/url]

[Guest T-Bone]

This thread predates the one you linked to.