Atheism

[Kosh]

yeah, JPII was very much in favor of that kind of thinking.

[track2004]

If you're interested in reading, CS Lewis talked about the evolution (not Darwin, just a word) of logic without out right assuming Christianity in Mere Christianity. He talks about it all building on each other, but how Christianity puts it all in better prespective. I'm pretty sure that's it anyway, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mistaken. Anyway I liked that book a lot and it provided a really comprehensive take on the whole bit.

I think a lot of logic could have happened without God by trial and error. It would take time and be generally not fun, but would work out. I think at most Christianity puts logic and philosophy in context, but doesn't really describe them and cannot take credit for them. Logic can be acreddited to God, but then God could be attributed to logic (population control).

It is a hard argument to make for you and the other guy. Nothing will ever really be conclusive. You talk about God and he says God doesn't exist... ad infinitum.

[suuran]

I think "logic" these days is a much butchered word...as I understand it, logic is purely mathematical. A logic statement is something like this:

If A, then B. If B, then C. (The Transitive property!)

It makes no claims about whether "if A" is correct. Computers work in logic. Geometric proofs are done using logic (user inputs A, they return C). But I don't think a statement like "We can concieve abstract ideas, so therefore we have souls" is a logical one. It's rational, sure, but that's not the same thing as logic. The two terms aren't interchangeable.

That's how I understand it, at least...I might be off. Or at least being too fussy about words .

I can try to post something more detailed later, but I'd wonder here if it's really worth the trouble to debate this guy...from his comments, it seems like he's more interested in a "slam down the religious guy" confrontation then a real discussion. Even if he were interested in a religious discussion, you're not going to convert him over the internet. If someone's heart is hardened against religion, only God can really soften it. That's up to your discretion, of course, but I'm not sure it's worth stressing out over if he's not really open to what you're saying.