MissScripture Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='track2004' post='1097454' date='Oct 21 2006, 01:12 AM'] If kids that age don't know what trans is then how could what they are doing is wrong or abnormal or any of it. I mean really it's a novel idea to them and this kid knows or thinks he likes being a girl. I understand my tantrum bit wasn't good logic, just a quick response thing. Did anyone see that Adam Sandler movie where he raises a kid, Big Daddy? I guess I just kinda go by that logic of raising kids, they know what they want and they'll realize what is good and what isn't. Kids are pragmatic like that. My philosophy on rearing kids is liberal anyway for lots of reasons so I guess no one here will really agree with it. Granted I probably wouldn't let my boy dress in skirts, I'd let him play with dolls though and wear pink. If the kid was like 15 I'd let him dress like a girl though, because if you're going to be trans at that age, good luck. [/quote] And you know what? Movies aren't real life. Real life doesn't turn out like movies do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='MissScripture' post='1097749' date='Oct 21 2006, 12:42 PM'] And you know what? Movies aren't real life. Real life doesn't turn out like movies do. [/quote] I know how bad would it be if my life turned out to be Beaches. Or Day of the Dead, man, that'd be bad. Besides the fact that Big Daddy didn't infact happen do you have a point? Movies aren't just there to look pretty, they usually have a message and no one just pull the message from no where. People raise their kids like that, more people than Sonny, and generally kids turn out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='track2004' post='1097760' date='Oct 21 2006, 01:52 PM'] I know how bad would it be if my life turned out to be Beaches. Or Day of the Dead, man, that'd be bad. Besides the fact that Big Daddy didn't infact happen do you have a point? Movies aren't just there to look pretty, they usually have a message and no one just pull the message from no where. People raise their kids like that, more people than Sonny, and generally kids turn out fine. [/quote] Looking at the condition of the world right now, I'd beg to differ about that part that generally kids turn out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I haven't seen the movie in a bit, but when Adam Sandler starts to actually become a good father, doesn't he stop the "do whatever you want stuff" and realizes that the Kid isn't old enough to make his own choices for everything... If I remember correctly, they go out and buy new, clean clothes and all that such. [quote]Sonny: Hi, Julian! How ya doin'? I'm Scuba Sam, Scuba Steve's father. You see, my boy needs to take a bath, the only problem is he's afraid to bathe alone. So, I was wondering if you'd keep him company in the tub.Terrific, and after your bath, you need to try and study hard because if you want to be in the Scuba Squad, you have to be smart. Julian: I can be in the Scuba Squad? Sonny: Well sure! All you have to do is work hard and don't tell a soul about the Scuba Squad because then everybody's gonna wanna join! Oh, and one more thing! Be nice to the Delivery Guy, will ya? It's not his fault he can't read. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Encouraging him to bathe, yeah, but the kid still eats ketchup by the truck load and wears those rain boots. MissScripture: Good to know you have faith in my generation and the generations after me. Don't blame us when things fall apart, we didn't raise ourselves (or most of us didn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Antony Maria OSB Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='track2004' post='1097454' date='Oct 20 2006, 11:12 PM'] If kids that age don't know what trans is then how could what they are doing is wrong or abnormal or any of it. I mean really it's a novel idea to them and this kid knows or thinks he likes being a girl. [/quote] That's the thing, they don't know that it's wrong when it is. If 5 year olds are allowed to continue acting like this, then they will get the impression that it is okay to do, when it's not, and so grow up with that mentality. It is at the youngest stages in our lives that we are most easily influenced by the actions and attitudes of others. If we see at that age that pretending to be the opposite gender is okay by our parents, this thought coming from either the parents doing nothing or allowing it to continue by providing more clothes of the opposite sex, then we would grow up thinking that it's completely normal to act like the opposite gender. This can easily cause, and most likely will cause, more problems than a parent saying no to this kind of behavior would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) [quote name='track2004' post='1097769' date='Oct 21 2006, 01:13 PM'] Encouraging him to bathe, yeah, but the kid still eats ketchup by the truck load and wears those rain boots. MissScripture: Good to know you have faith in my generation and the generations after me. Don't blame us when things fall apart, we didn't raise ourselves (or most of us didn't). [/quote] I have to watch that movie again now lol... I swear he stopped that stuff... and went to school and everything. Even then, it shows how a kid isn't old enough to make those major decisions most of the time and that an adult has to be responsible for the child. Another good line: [quote]Sonny: Man this Yoohoo is good, you know what else is good, smoking dope. I ain't gonna rat you out. You know, puffing the cheeba, go by the see saw smoke a j. You know what I'm talking about? Jared: I have a belly button. Sonny: You have a belly button, well we all have belly buttons. You know what? We all love Yoohoo, especially Yoohoo with a little rum. Jared: What's rum? Sonny: You don't know what Rum is? Jared: Rumplestilskin? Sonny: Rumplestilskin's a good man. So are you guys. Hey, stay clean, stay focused, stay strong. Frankenstein, have fun with your friends. [/quote] Edited October 21, 2006 by CatholicCid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='track2004' post='1097769' date='Oct 21 2006, 02:13 PM'] Encouraging him to bathe, yeah, but the kid still eats ketchup by the truck load and wears those rain boots. MissScripture: Good to know you have faith in my generation and the generations after me. Don't blame us when things fall apart, we didn't raise ourselves (or most of us didn't). [/quote] FYI: I am part of your generation, which is probably why I have so little faith in it. And isn't that what you're arguing? That kids should raise themselves? You said: [quote] I guess I just kinda go by that logic of raising kids, they know what they want and they'll realize what is good and what isn't. Kids are pragmatic like that.[/quote] So, it's a good thing for the kid to eat ketchup by the truckload? Yes, I do think that there are things that kids should be allowed to decide for themselves, within reason, such as what they want to wear. But that doesn't extend to everything, and the parents still need to guide their children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Guiding kids and forcing kids is different. It'd be good to guide kids, but forcing them to comply to gender rules is obsurd and won't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 (edited) Guiding includes giving guidance and at times, making sure that guidance is followed... Just because they do not accept it does not mean the guidance is not correct and should not be followed... Say if your kid needed surgery to live, otherwise he would die... You know he has to have surgery and you tell him that. He is afraid so he says no. Does that mean you won't have him have the surgery? Edited October 21, 2006 by CatholicCid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 Did you see that episode of House where House convinces a kid to breathe the medicine. You show a kid what the what is; you treat a kid like a person instead of an object; you trust him with something because if you don't they just end up hating you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='track2004' post='1097824' date='Oct 21 2006, 03:27 PM'] Did you see that episode of House where House convinces a kid to breathe the medicine. You show a kid what the what is; you treat a kid like a person instead of an object; you trust him with something because if you don't they just end up hating you. [/quote] So, if you explained the surgery and all and tried to show him every possible reason, if he was still scared and didn't want to do it, you would agree? At times, tough love is a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 I wouldn't get knocked up in the first place, but if my fictional kid had to have surgery I'd show him where I had surgery and told him it made me all better. Hell I don't know what'd I'd do if my fictional kid had to have surgery and was scared. But the fact is that in most situations treating kids with respect and acknowedging their fears and desires and letting them explain themselves is the best for them. I'm only vaguely sure how we got to this point in the convo, but we should stop and get back on track. If a kid wants to dress like the opposite gender it's not going to help to force him/her to obey gender norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote]I'm only vaguely sure how we got to this point in the convo, but we should stop and get back on track. If a kid wants to dress like the opposite gender it's not going to help to force him/her to obey gender norms.[/quote] The real question is: Is it going to help to let them go against the gender norms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted October 21, 2006 Share Posted October 21, 2006 [quote name='T-Bone' post='1097835' date='Oct 21 2006, 05:09 PM'] The real question is: Is it going to help to let them go against the gender norms? [/quote] If by help you also mean if it is morally right. If it is not morally right it will not truly be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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