Biblical Belief Quiz

[Eutychus]

Budge, I can recall somewhere where a computer genius counted all the words in the NAB, then compared it to the number of words in a three year reading cycle { where they want you to believe the entire bible is read } he came up with proof, that approximately 30% of the bible is omitted.

I suppose that is a pretty good indication of how much of the bible, the leadership doesn't want known, or would rather not have to answer questions about.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096775' date='Oct 20 2006, 12:56 PM']
Budge, I can recall somewhere where a computer genius counted all the words in the NAB, then compared it to the number of words in a three year reading cycle { where they want you to believe the entire bible is read } he came up with proof, that approximately 30% of the bible is omitted.

I suppose that is a pretty good indication of how much of the bible, the leadership doesn't want known, or would rather not have to answer questions about.
[/quote]
were I the pope, I would not wish to answer questions about whether Hezekiah fathered Jeremiah who fathered Jim all day long.

Edited October 20, 2006 by toledo_jesus

[homeschoolmom]

Jim?

[Justified Saint]

I suppose it is characteristic for Protestants of the more fundamentalist type to treat every word and verse of scripture with equal value and relevancy to the rest, because if you don't then you are denying the inspiration of the Bible -- or so it is reasoned. That is an unfortunate position.

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1096777' date='Oct 20 2006, 10:01 AM']
Jim?
[/quote]

[Azriel]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096754' date='Oct 20 2006, 10:32 AM']

If you want, we can teach you what your church teaches, not what you think it does, just let us know, ok?
[/quote]

I've always found this to be an extremely fascinating point of view. Personally, if I wanted to learn about a duck, I'd ask a duck. If I wanted to know what my Missionary Minister Uncle believes, or what their church teaches, I'd ask him. How come that sounds so logical? Why would I want to ask you what my church teaches when you are not (by your own admission) part of it?

Presuming to know what is in anyone's mind or heart is extremely presumptious of anyone ... Catholic, Baptist, whoever. You end up spending so much time picking each other apart that you forget that whole "loving thy neighbor" part. The goal becomes not spreading truth (on either side) but as Theo said in another thread, who's truth is right.

Sigh. So much anger. h

[Eutychus]

[quote]I suppose it is characteristic for Protestants of the more fundamentalist type to treat every word and verse of scripture with equal value and relevancy to the rest, because if you don't then you are denying the inspiration of the Bible -- or so it is reasoned. [/quote]

[quote]I would not wish to answer questions about whether Hezekiah fathered Jeremiah who fathered Jim all day long.[/quote]

TIME OUT!!

Now, adopting my NORMAL personality { the one that I use with people interested in actually having an open mind, to absorb, and be BLOWN AWAY by the "inconsequential gems" the little nuggets of truth hidden carefully within the most mundane of passages...} may I present the following?

Now we have one of those BEGOTS passages, the one that was so cavalierly dismissed out of hand....present first as written:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read every single word, in BOTH of these presentations, IF you really want to have an insight that a Mass reading cannot, and would not ever reveal, ok?

[quote]Genesis 5:1 (KJV) This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.

12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:

13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.

15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.

18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.

25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:

26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.[/quote]



BOOOOORING.......right?

Maybe not?!

[quote]The Gospel in Genesis

by Chuck Missler

Meanings Of The Names In Genesis 5

We frequently use the familiar term, gospel, or good news. Where is the first place it appears in the Bible? The answer may surprise you.

An Integrated Message

The great discovery is that the Bible is a message system: it's not simply 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, the Bible is an integrated whole which bears evidence of supernatural engineering in every detail.

The Jewish rabbis have a quaint way of expressing this very idea: they say that they will not understand the Scriptures until the Messiah comes. But when He comes, He will not only interpret each of the passages for us, He will interpret the very words; He will even interpret the very letters themselves; in fact, He will even interpret the spaces between the letters!

When I first heard this, I simply dismissed this as a colorful exaggeration. Until I reread Matthew 5:17 and 18:

"Think not that I have come to destroy the Torah and the prophets; I have not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

(A jot and tittle are the Hebrew equivalent of our dotting an i and the crossing of a t.)

An Example

A remarkable example of this can be glimpsed in Genesis Chapter 5, where we have the genealogy of Adam through Noah. This is one of those chapters which we often tend to skim over quickly as we pass through Genesis it's simply a genealogy from Adam to Noah.

But God always rewards the diligent student. Let's examine this chapter more closely.

In our Bible, we read the Hebrew names. What do these names mean in English?

A Study of Original Roots

The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since a direct translation is often not readily available. Even a conventional Hebrew lexicon can prove disappointing. A study of the original roots, however, can yield some fascinating insights.

(A caveat: many study aids, such as a conventional lexicon, can prove rather superficial when dealing with proper nouns. Furthermore, views concerning the meanings of original roots are not free of controversy and variant readings.)

Let's take an example.

The Flood Judgment

Methuselah comes from muth, a root that means "death";1 and from shalach, which means to bring, or to send forth. The name Methuselah means, "his death shall bring".2

Methuselah's father was given a prophecy of the coming Great Flood, and was apparently told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be brought or sent forth.

(Can you imagine raising a kid like that? Every time the boy caught a cold, the entire neighborhood must have panicked!)

And, indeed, the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.3

It is interesting that Methuselah's life, in effect, was a symbol of God's mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood.

Therefore, it is fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, speaking of the extensiveness of God's mercy.

The Other Names

If there is such significance in Methuselah's name, let's examine the other names to see what may lie behind them.

Adam's name means man. As the first man, that seems straight forward enough.

Seth

Adam's son was named Seth, which means appointed. Eve said, "For God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."4

Enosh

Seth's son was called Enosh, which means mortal, frail, or miserable. It is from the root anash, to be incurable, used of a wound, grief, woe, sickness, or wickedness.

It was in the days of Enosh that men began to defile the name of the Living God.5

Kenan

Enosh's son was named Kenan, which can mean sorrow, dirge, or elegy. (The precise denotation is somewhat elusive; some study aids unfortunately presume that Kenan is synonymous with Cainan.)

Balaam, looking down from the heights of Moab, uses a pun upon the name of the Kenites when he prophesies their destruction.6

We have no real idea as to why these names were chosen for their children. Often they may have referred to circumstances at birth, and so on.

Mahalalel

Kenan's son was Mahalalel, from Mahalal which means blessed or praise; and El, the name for God. Thus, Mahalalel means the Blessed God. Often Hebrew names include El, the name of God, as Dan-i-el, "God is my Judge", etc.

Jared

Mahalalel's son was named Jared, from the verb yaradh, meaning shall come down.7

Enoch

Jared's son was named Enoch, which means teaching, or commencement. He was the first of four generations of preachers. In fact, the earliest recorded prophecy was by Enoch, which amazingly enough deals with the Second Coming of Christ (although it is quoted in the Book of Jude in the New Testament):

Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against."
Jude 14, 15

Methuselah

Enoch was the father of Methuselah, who we have already mentioned. Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah.8 Apparently, Enoch received the prophecy of the Great Flood, and was told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld. The year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Enoch, of course, never died: he was translated 9 (or, if you'll excuse the expression, raptured ). That's how Methuselah can be the oldest man in the Bible, yet he died before his father!

Lamech

Methuselah's son was named Lamech, a root still evident today in our own English word, lament or lamentation. Lamech suggests despairing.

(This name is also linked to the Lamech in Cain's line who inadvertently killed his son Tubal-Cain in a hunting incident.10)

Noah

Lamech, of course, is the father of Noah, which is derived from nacham, to bring relief or comfort, as Lamech himself explains in Genesis 5:29.

The Composite List

[b]Now let's put it all together:

Hebrew English

Adam Man

Seth Appointed

Enosh Mortal

Kenan Sorrow;

Mahalalel The Blessed God

Jared Shall come down

Enoch Teaching

Methuselah His death shall bring

Lamech The Despairing

Noah Rest, or comfort.

That's rather remarkable:

[u]Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.[/u][/b]

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!) [/quote]

Edited October 20, 2006 by Eutychus

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097059' date='Oct 20 2006, 04:48 PM']
TIME OUT!!

Now, adopting my NORMAL personality { the one that I use with people interested in actually having an open mind, to absorb, and be BLOWN AWAY by the "inconsequential gems" the little nuggets of truth hidden carefully within the most mundane of passages...} may I present the following?

Now we have one of those BEGOTS passages, the one that was so cavalierly dismissed out of hand....present first as written:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read every single word, in BOTH of these presentations, IF you really want to have an insight that a Mass reading cannot, and would not ever reveal, ok?
BOOOOORING.......right?

Maybe not?!
[/quote]
Eutychus, I agree that Mass readings sometimes don't come across as an interesting way. I was blessed to take a class on Old Testament with Dr. John Bergsma last year and was blown away by how many little things there are seemingly hidden away in the Scriptures.

It's a sad thing that many of the Catholic faithful don't know these things, especially since they are our heritage. It is because of a lack of catechesis, that is, the faithful simply are not told about all these things. There needs to be reform in preaching...it needs to be boosted and strengthened. That's why places like Franciscan University of Steubenville are training tomorrow's Catholic educators in the Scriptures.

However, it should be stated that a reading is always a reading alone. The homily is where the readings should be explained. Just wanted to state that. It's just a matter of how we teach the Scriptures.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097059' date='Oct 20 2006, 04:48 PM']
TIME OUT!!

Now, adopting my NORMAL personality { the one that I use with people interested in actually having an open mind, to absorb, and be BLOWN AWAY by the "inconsequential gems" the little nuggets of truth hidden carefully within the most mundane of passages...} may I present the following?

Now we have one of those BEGOTS passages, the one that was so cavalierly dismissed out of hand....present first as written:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read every single word, in BOTH of these presentations, IF you really want to have an insight that a Mass reading cannot, and would not ever reveal, ok?
BOOOOORING.......right?

Maybe not?!
[/quote]
I'm not quite blown away, though that is interesting.

[Eutychus]

[quote] It's a sad thing that many of the Catholic faithful don't know these things, especially since they are our heritage. It is because of a lack of catechesis, that is, the faithful simply are not told about all these things. There needs to be reform in preaching...it needs to be boosted and strengthened.[/quote]

I am not alone in noting that most of the better and well known bible teachers of note in the Catholic Church are former protestants.

Now the question becomes, will THEY inpart a love of the bible to you, or will YOU over time, smell of elderberries out the love of the bible from them?

I believe the latter will prevail, rather than the former.

[i]{ I monitor about five large popular Catholic blogs, some getting thousands of pageviews a day...I note, that unless one of US posts a scripture verse or two, you can go days even weeks without a bible verse being introduced as the answer to any problem....and these are the intelligentia, the creme de la creme of the Catholic Church world...}[/i]

Edited October 20, 2006 by Eutychus

[Resurrexi]

[quote]ONE - "Is satan a real entity?"[/quote]

[quote name='The Catechism']19 Q. What are the Angels called who were banished for ever from Paradise and condemned to hell?
A. The Angels banished for ever from Paradise and condemned to hell are called demons, and their chief is called Lucifer or Satan.[/quote]

[quote]TWO - "Was Christ sinless?"[/quote]

[quote name='The Catechism']6 Q. God can neither sin nor die, how then do we say He can do all things?
A. Though He can neither sin nor die, we say God can do all things, because to be able to sin or die is not an effect of power, but of weakness which cannot exist in God who is most perfect.[/quote]

[quote] THREE - "Is the bible totally accurate?" [/quote]

[quote name='The Catechism']27 Q. Can there be any error in Holy Scripture?
A. There cannot be any error in Holy Scripture since indeed it is inspired by God. The Author of all of the books is God Himself. This does not prevent that in copies and translations that have been made, some errors on the part of the copyists or translators may have crept into it.[/quote]

Edited October 20, 2006 by StThomasMore

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096396' date='Oct 19 2006, 09:12 PM']
As a [mod][[b]CHRISTIAN[/b]-Raphael][/mod] { not an Israelite Jew } I would do BETTER to observe what they did in the book of ACTS.
[/quote]
So are we to simply disregard everything in the Old Testament because we're not Jews?
So who's the Bible Christian here?
(And this is quite hypocritical coming from someone who quotes from the OT when attempting to "prove" Catholicism false.)

Since God [b]commanded[/b] and [b]approved of [/b] such formal displays of reverence towards His Word in the tablets of His Covenant, how much more respect would He wish shown toward the Gospel, the Good News of His Son, Jesus Christ?

Again, where in Acts (or elsewhere in the New Testament for that matter) are processions and displays of external respect towards God's Word expressedly forbidden?

(And where are your church's comfy seats, tasty donut shops and bang-up gym mentioned in Acts, if you wish to follow that line? Or are they unbiblical traditions of men?)

And regarding the finery of the Catholic Bibles, it should be noted that for many centuries, the printing press did not exist, and all Bibles had to be copied by hand! Those manufacturing the Bibles wanted to give their very best in copying and preserving God's Word. Have you ever seen a medieval illuminated Bible? Quite an amazing work of art - handcopied by Catholic Monks. A bit hard to argue that the Catholic Church has no regard for the Bible!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1096397' date='Oct 19 2006, 09:14 PM']
Ok i picked one day at random....

lets see what was left out, I can find something almost for every day..

This is right from USCCB website, tommorows mass readings.

September 22, 2006

Friday of the Twenty-fourth Week in Ordinary Time

Psalm: Friday 39

Reading 1
1 Cor 15:12-20

Brothers and sisters:
If Christ is preached as raised from the dead,
how can some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead?
If there is no resurrection of the dead,
then neither has Christ been raised.
And if Christ has not been raised, then empty too is our preaching;
empty, too, your faith.
Then we are also false witnesses to God,
because we testified against God that he raised Christ,
whom he did not raise if in fact the dead are not raised.
For if the dead are not raised, neither has Christ been raised,
and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain;
you are still in your sins.
Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
If for this life only we have hoped in Christ,
we are the most pitiable people of all.

But now Christ has been raised from the dead,
the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

[color="#FF0000"]Responsorial Psalm
Ps 17:1bcd, 6-7, 8b and 15[/color]
R. (15b) Lord, when your glory appears, my joy will be full.
Hear, O LORD, a just suit;
attend to my outcry;
hearken to my prayer from lips without deceit.
R. Lord, when your glory appears, my joy will be full.
I call upon you, for you will answer me, O God;
incline your ear to me; hear my word.
Show your wondrous mercies,
O savior of those who flee
from their foes to refuge at your right hand.
R. Lord, when your glory appears, my joy will be full.
Hide me in the shadow of your wings,
But I in justice shall behold your face;
on waking, I shall be content in your presence.
R. Lord, when your glory appears, my joy will be full.

{OK WHY DID THEY SNIP INDIVIDUAL SENTENCES OUT...LETS LOOK}

go here to see verse in entirety....

7 is missing...

[u] Show your wonderful love, you who deliver with your right arm those who seek refuge from their foes.[/u]

9-14 got the chop...how come?
[u]9
from the violence of the wicked.
10
3 My ravenous enemies press upon me; they close their hearts, they fill their mouths with proud roaring.
11
Their steps even now encircle me; they watch closely, keeping low to the ground,
12
Like lions eager for prey, like young lions lurking in ambush.
13
Rise, O LORD, confront and cast them down; rescue me so from the wicked.
14
Slay them with your sword; with your hand, LORD, slay them; snatch them from the world in their prime. Their bellies are being filled with your friends; their children are satisfied too, for they share what is left with their young.[/u]
8
Gospel
Lk 8:1-3

Jesus journeyed from one town and village to another,
preaching and proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom of God.
Accompanying him were the Twelve
and some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities,
Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
Joanna, the wife of Herod’s steward Chuza,
Susanna, and many others
who provided for them out of their resources.

***********************

One thing Ive noticed is on these Mass readings WARNINGS ABOUT EVIL, and GOD as the MAIN DELIVERER ALWAYS SEEM TO GET THE CHOPPING BLOCK>

Pick any day, on most you can find something that has been chopped, I have done this to about 20 different days, and always found something.
[/quote]

The Responsorial Psalm (sung musically) never claims to be the complete unabridged psalm. It is more like a psalm-based hymn. (And I've heard plenty at Mass, both from Scripture readings and homilies, concerning WARNINGS ABOUT EVIL, and GOD as the MAIN DELIVERER. Search every day of the cycle, and you will find no such pattern.)
And [b]no[/b] "individual sentences" are [b]ever[/b] "chopped" from the Gospel and other readings at mass.

And the Mass is not the same as a Bible-study. Catholics are encouraged to read and study the Bible on their own. I have personally been encouraged by several priests to devotionally read the Bible on my own (with nothing "chopped" or excised.)

If the Catholic Church wanted Catholics to avoid reading certain passages, it would excise these passages from its editions of the Bible - but they're all there intact, for anyone to read, anytime!

That "argument" is bogus nonsense.

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096754' date='Oct 20 2006, 10:32 AM']
No, you actually believe that FAITH is just a downpayment, and REAL SALVATION comes via your works. In fact, you can be so WORK ORIENTED, that you can transfer your excess "goodness" to others.

[b]If you want, we can teach you what your church teaches, not what you think it does, just let us know, ok?[/b]
[/quote]
Wow, Eutychus, when were you appointed Pope?

Somehow, I managed to miss that on the news.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Since God commanded and approved of such formal displays of reverence towards His Word in the tablets of His Covenant, how much more respect would He wish shown toward the Gospel, the Good News of His Son, Jesus Christ? [/quote]

That is actually a VERY simple question to answer, isn't it?

What evidence to you find in the Book of Acts, for GILDED verses, incense being blown over them, walking into a room, holding the scriptures HIGH and above everyone?

Yeah, me too.

NONE.

Zippo.

NADA.

One more thing you need to tell Peter when you meet him that they messed up in the early church. I imagine that Peter will be REALLY pleased when you tell him how well you "IMPROVED" what they were teaching, and now PLEASED he will be to know that you all thought that a return to the ways of the Temple, High Priests, and formal temple rites was what they REALLY WANTED, but didn't have the money to do back then....right??

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1097329' date='Oct 20 2006, 08:09 PM']
That is actually a VERY simple question to answer, isn't it?

What evidence to you find in the Book of Acts, for GILDED verses, incense being blown over them, walking into a room, holding the scriptures HIGH and above everyone?

Yeah, me too.

NONE.

Zippo.

NADA.

One more thing you need to tell Peter when you meet him that they messed up in the early church. I imagine that Peter will be REALLY pleased when you tell him how well you "IMPROVED" what they were teaching, and now PLEASED he will be to know that you all thought that a return to the ways of the Temple, High Priests, and formal temple rites was what they REALLY WANTED, but didn't have the money to do back then....right??


[/quote]
What evidence do you find in the Book of Acts for your donut shops and church gyms, expensive, state-of-the-art sound systems, and nice, comfy seats?
(And I'd have you know, oh historical illiterate, that in biblical times, gymnasiums were the province of those pagan and effeminate Greeks!)

And since most of the New Testament had not yet been published in written form at the writing of Acts, this argument is more than a little bogus.
(And the Jews made high-quality scrolls of their Scriptures, and treated them with reverence.)

And if God is so displeased with reverence being given to His Word, why did He so explicitly [b]command [/b] it in Exodus??

And I'm sure Peter will be much impressed at how much money was spent by your congregation on cozy seating and audio equipment, instead of such frivolities as nice Bibles!

How about more solid evidence for your positions and less hot air!

Edited October 21, 2006 by Socrates

[Eutychus]

[quote]What evidence do you find in the Book of Acts for your donut shops and church gyms, expensive, state-of-the-art sound systems, and nice, comfy seats? [/quote]

None.

None at all.

Absolutely NONE.

I'm sure they don't have ANY of those in the startup Pentecostal churches that are taking 10% of the Catholics out of the Catholic Church in Latin America every year.

Frankly, they are NICE, but definately not needed, and the money could be better spent, but that is my opinion, and I'm in the minority.