Catholic Pagan Worship Of Mary?

[jswranch]

How do Catholics reguard the Blessed Virgin Mary? View how the Jews viewed the Ark of the Covenant and you will understand!

[img]http://www.tabernacleshadows.com/images/ark_of_covenant/tabernacle_ark_priest,sm.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.harpazo.net/images/consecrationSM.jpg[/img]

[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ivymead/images/Songs/Priests%20with%20Ark.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.westbankheritage.org.uk/images/image_gallery/large/wbhf277.jpg[/img]

[img]http://static.flickr.com/20/71545757_30db4e1794_o.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.mgardens.org/TipToeingForMary.gif[/img]

Edited October 15, 2006 by jswranch

[HeavenlyCalling]

Jews aren't pagans. They were acting how God told them to through Moses.

Edited October 15, 2006 by HeavenlyCalling

[jswranch]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1092011' date='Oct 15 2006, 04:43 AM']
Jews aren't pagans. They were acting how God told them to through Moses.
[/quote]


: Ohh! So then veneration of Mary is just like worshiping God before Ark of the New Covenant???

(atleast someone would have patted me on the back for finding pics that match each other)

[Akalyte]

The whole "catholics worship mary" thing is rediculous. They see that we honor people other than Jesus and they automatically claim we making gods out of Mary and the Saints.

If they really believe this way than they need to remove all the pictures of family members from their wallets, purses and homes.

We dont believe saints are deities we dont believe mary is a deity. We believe in ONE God. The Trinity.

Yet they insist "You do this and you do that" Dont tell me what I do and dont do. I will tell you what I do and dont do. I do not give mary and the saints the highest form of worship "adoration". I do not believe they are deities.

I do honor them, just as everyone else honors hero's and family members. We remember them and their examples, and we follow in their footsteps. This is not worship. Its not adorartion, its honor, respect and its love. That's pretty biblical. (Romans 13:7) (Ps 19:2) Nothing wrong with honoring the creators, crafts. By doing so the honor ultimitely goes to GOD.

Its sad that anti-catholics want to believe bad about us. They want to believe we are evil pagans who hate God and the bible. The same church which compiled the bible, safeguarded it, and then gave it to the world.

If they could only read our hearts and minds.

Edited October 15, 2006 by Akalyte

[Akalyte]

Also, how hard is it to see that Mary is the Ark of the new covenant? The Ark of the old covenant held the word. The What exactly held the word in the new covenant? Its obvious. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. Nice pic comparison..

[MIKolbe]

Since there is some comparison being done between BVM and the Arc of the Covenant..let us compare The Gospel of St. Luke (NT) to The Book of Samuel (OT).




2 Samuel 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda



2 Samuel 6:9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and said, How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?



2 Samuel 6:11 And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months...

Luke 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months...




2 Samuel 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD [His Presence over the Ark]

Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.



In the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant, overshadowed by the the Spirit of God, was the instrument through which God came to dwell among men; in the New Testament, Mary, overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, is the instrument through which God came to dwell among men. She is the Ark of the New Covenant.

[iKonstantin]

Besides, there is nothing wrong with her being the co-redemptrix / mediatrix!




bpat Konstantin

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='iKonstantin' post='1092105' date='Oct 15 2006, 03:18 PM']
Besides, there is nothing wrong with her being the co-redemptrix / mediatrix!
bpat Konstantin
[/quote]
Nope, nothing wrong with that at all.

[Cam42]

[quote name='iKonstantin' post='1092105' date='Oct 15 2006, 01:18 PM']
Besides, there is nothing wrong with her being the co-redemptrix / mediatrix!
bpat Konstantin
[/quote]

Nope nothing wrong with it at all....

[Budge]

No Jew ever worshipped the ark itself but what was in it.

If any Jew worshipped the box or the golden cherubs on it, they would have been idolatrous.

they worshipped the precense of God.

Exd 40:34 ¶ Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, [u]and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.[/u]

I don't think you want to use this one to exucse the bowing before statues lest you believe those statues have an actual precense in them,

[Cam42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1092124' date='Oct 15 2006, 02:07 PM']
No Jew ever worshipped the ark itself but what was in it.

If any Jew worshipped the box or the golden cherubs on it, they would have been idolatrous.

they worshipped the precense of God.

Exd 40:34 ¶ Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, [u]and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.[/u]

I don't think you want to use this one to exucse the bowing before statues lest you believe those statues have an actual precense in them,
[/quote]

Hey Budge.....certain things are assumed. When we speak of the Ark of the Covenant, as do like 99% of all Christians, we are not speaking of the box, but what is in it.....nothing like being uber-literal......

Wanna answer my questions and respond to my assertations yet? All you have to do, if you are confused as to what they are, is look back or do a search on my name and you'll be able to find said questions.


I don't think that you are really all that interested in that though....it would expose your weaknesses and inaccuracies in your "Biblical position."

[Budge]

the ark is a forerunner of JESUS.

God coming to dwell among men..

it doesnt represent mary...

[quote]A Type of Christ
[b]
The ark of the Covenant was a picture of Jesus Christ[/b]. The Acacia wood speaks of the indestructible humanity of Jesus. He was 100% man. God Himself became flesh and suffered the agonies of the human experience. He was tempted, He was weary, He thirsted, He had to learn the *****ures and learn obedience and to hear God's voice and be led by the Spirit as a man. Not only does the Acacia wood tell us that He was 100% man but the pure gold that overlayed the wood teaches us that He was 100% God. Jesus said "unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins." He used the same words (Heb. eheyay asher aheyay) as when the Lord spoke to Moses at the burning bush. The Jewish Messiah was none other than Jehovah Himself visiting His people and becoming their savior by dying for the sins of the world and that is the etymology of the name Jesus (Heb. Y'shua 'Yaweh has become salvation'). Jesus condemned the religious leaders for not recognizing "the day of their visitation."
[b]
The crown of gold around the top of the ark speaks of the Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords[/b]. Jesus overcame the onslaught of opposition that was set against Him His whole life by the religious leaders, the wealthy Jewish aristocracy, Rome itself, and even all the power of the enemy. He overcame even death itself and rose triumphantly and was given a crown, and glory, and honor, because He is the King. According to John it was Jesus who Isaiah saw seated on the throne of glory with the angels crying 'holy, holy, holy.'
[b]
The unbroken tables of stone set forth Jesus as the One who perfectly kept the Law and never broke God's Commandments[/b]. The Bible says that He "committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth." Jesus felt the pressure of temptation at its full intensity yet he never sinned. Even the look in His eye and the tone of His voice reflected the very perfections of the holiness of God Himself. Aaron's rod that budded also speaks of Jesus. Something that had died and supernaturally came to life again. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." The golden pot of manna speaks of Jesus as the bread of life who came down from heaven to bring food, the Word of God, to a world in darkness and dying of hunger.

It all points to Jesus. Even the golden poles speak of the ever living and ever present Savior who is with us in all our journeying and will never leave us nor forsake us. If you were to examine the history of the ark there would be striking resemblances to the ministry of Jesus our Lord:
[b]
The ark went before the people - Jesus went before them:[/b]John 10:4 "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

The ark was in the middle of God's people - Jesus is in His people:
John 14:20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.[b]

The people were to follow the ark - We are to follow Jesus:[/b]Luke 5:27-28 After these things He went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he left all, rose up, and followed Him.

And on and on, the ark was always first to lead them. It was death to those that were enemies of God. The ark brought blessings and curses.
Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

1 Pet 2:22 "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth";

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Jn 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.[/quote]

[Cam42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1092137' date='Oct 15 2006, 02:27 PM']
the ark is a forerunner of JESUS.

God coming to dwell among men..

it doesnt represent mary...
[/quote]


Hey, Mary is a proper noun, let's try Capitalizing it. ok, budge?

And yes, the Ark is a forerunner of Jesus, but since Jesus is God and God dwelled in the Ark, then it would make sense that since Jesus dwelled in Mary, Mary could be considered the New Ark......

Try thinking "inside the box." Geez, I crack myself up!!!!

[Budge]

[quote]
And yes, the Ark is a forerunner of Jesus, but since Jesus is God and God dwelled in the Ark, then it would make sense that since Jesus dwelled in Mary, Mary could be considered the New Ark......[/quote]

What about the Incarnation?

Dwelled in Mary? 9 months compared to 33 years?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1092148' date='Oct 15 2006, 04:40 PM']
What about the Incarnation?

Dwelled in Mary? 9 months compared to 33 years?
[/quote]
What does the time spent have to do with it?