Black Masses

[Jake Huether]

For what its worth:

I think its interesting that there is a practice of Black Masses, but not Black Evangelical Worship Services. Just my $.02

An excelent observation!

In fact, I've always wondered this.

If we are the whore of bab... and worship satan... yadayada - you know the rest.

Why would actual satanists steal our stuff to desicrate it?

I mean, if we're for them, why are they against us.

And even MORE interesting is that it is apearant that we are the ONLY threat to them.

I will start another thread to see what our Protestant brothers say. I wonder if they're harrassed like us...

[Anna]

Malachai Martin, Windswept House. Jesuit, worked IN the Vatican. A leading expert in Exorcisms.

I don't know that Malachi Martin is a leading expert in exorcisms.

I've read a couple of his books.

He's kinda "out there."

Here's what Brother Ignatius Mary of

While Hostage to the Devil is interesting in its case histories, some of the theology of exorcism postulated by Mr. Martin is dubious at best. His concept that a priest MUST "clash" personally between his personality and the devil's is ridiculous from what I understand. He makes is a personal struggle between the priest and the devil, rather then the priest representing the Church and praying in the name of the Church.

I have a copy of the old Rite of Exorcism (a new Rite was promulgated recently). No where in that Rite does it mention a "clash". To me this smacks of a priestly version in solemn exorcism of what priests and laity do outside of a formal exorcism in the great ego of "I" in the unnecessary imprecatory language. The "clash" is very ego-oriented.

Mr. Martin has, over the years until his death a year or two ago, proved himself to be quite untrustworthy. His style of "journalism", if it can be called that, is the yellow journalism of the National Inquirer type tabloids.

He presents what he says are facts and then promptly NEVER provides any real evidence to support his allegations.

I heard him in an interview one time respond to why he did not simply write a non-fiction book instead of these novels. His response was right out of the con-artist bible.

He said that he writes "fact-ion" -- part fact and part fiction. Of course he will not tells us which is which, but he will say that his novels are 80% true. He went on to add that he does this to protect the public, that somehow the public could not take it if they knew for sure these things he alleges are true.

This reminds me of the government policy spoken by a CIA official once that "if" UFO's were real they would not tell the public because the public couldn't handle it. How paternalistically patronizing.

I say HOGWASH!!!!

In Mr. Martin's case, he says his novels are 80% fact. All he does by telling us this is NOT protect us from the terrible truth that we cannot take, but fuel speculation and imagination as to what is true and what is not true.

This is a CLASSIC TEXTBOOK technique to sell books to a gullible audience.

As a former book publisher and editor I am fully aware of the techniques to market a book. Mr. Martin was a master at it.

As a result Mr. Martin caused, and is still causing even after his death, scandal in the Church and assisting people in the loss of their faith.

Mr. Martin, essentially, became a ultra-traditionalist wacko who, among his other crimes, slandered Pope John Paul II as the leader of the devil's plans to bring down the Church. Such slanders, rash judgments, and encouragment of divisiveness among the Faithful, and causing them to doubt God's promise that "hell shall never prevail against the church", is a legacy that is not of God. May God forgive him and may he rest in peace in our Father's arms.

But, because of his conspiratorial-wacko-boogie man con-artistry in selling books many of the same mentality think he was a guru of some sort. Yet I have never seen any substantive proof to most of his allegations. All I ever heard was a run around, beating around the bush, and creating a great mysterious interest in him and the subject that just coincidentally is a primary technique to sell a book.

Was he a priest? Yes, but contrary to popular opinion among his gullible groupies, the man was laicized in 1965 and there is a vatican document to prove it which I can produce a copy. That means that NOT ONLY was he released from his vows as a religious, but that he was returned to the lay state -- ergo, no longer clergy and thus not legally able to do a formal exorcism or to be called "Father", or to say Mass, or any other of the Sacraments, except in danger of death.

Once a priest, always a priest, but being clergy is not necessarily forever. A priest can be returned to the lay state which is why is it called Laicization.

God Bless,

Bro. Ignatius Mary

http://www.saint-mike.org/Apologetics/QA/A...0306290165.html

Edited January 12, 2004 by Anna

[Don John of Austria]

Its simple really good satanist are Catholics they are Just REALLY BAD ONES. I have come face to face with formal Satanism on a couple of occasions , the scariest ones are all essentially orthodox catholics in there beilief systems-- they just chose the other side. In my experiance they don't deny Christ is part of the Trinity, or the Transubstantiation or anything they simply have chosen to go to war with God. Those with less formal adherance to Catholic doctrine, I guess the protestants of the Satanic world, are much less ( in my experiance) commited to the Satanic position, and are more likely to try to justify it as okay, whereas the "catholic" Satanist are much more frank about having chosen it as a path to power.

[hyperdulia again]

I respect them. Better than all the Satan Worshipping Christans do.

[Don John of Austria]

I respect them. Better than all the Satan Worshipping Christans do.

?

[frozencell]

?

Ditto.

[geetarplayer]

Perhaps hyper means that they have so much faith that the Eucharist is actually Jesus, in some cases they have more faith than many Catholics, and that is why hyper respects them. Not because of the horrible things they do to the Eucharist, though.

I think Satanists are scary. I pity them.

-Mark

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I don't think they're scarey.

[hyperdulia again]

"?"

with sin and tarot and jabez prayers and hypocrisy

[Aloysius]

so some of these satanists have valid holy orders, do it with the full intent of it becoming Christ and with correct matter, is it then actually consecrated? isn't there a way we can take away their holy orders, or at least their ability to consecrate hosts? is there any type of strong excommunication of a priest that would invalidate him, and could the Church apply a general invalidation excommunication for all priests involved in satanism?

[hyperdulia again]

there is no way to undo a sacrament.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Priests can be excommunicated. That Bishop who approved the Society of St. Pius X was.

[hyperdulia again]

but they are still priests. they still cann confect the eucharist. they can still forgive sins. a sacrament can never be undone.

[cmotherofpirl]

Ordination marks the soul the same as Baptism does.

"Thou art a priest forever..."

[Donna]

The SSPX was canonically approved by the Vatican, not by a bishop.