Revival

[desertwoman]

For all of my Protestant brethren. I asked this question on another board, and it hasnt been answered yet.

But what is revival? If a church is biblicaly and doctrinaly sound, why do we need revival? Is revival an emotional deal that we have to go through in order to feel like we are close to the divine? A hit that we must have every other year in order to feel the Spirit?

I'm protestant myself, and I never understood the concept of revival if the church is doing what it is suppose to be doing. Why do we need revival if the church is based off the Bible as the sole source, and bases of our doctrines?


Thanks for the replies!! For I honestly would like to know.

[cmotherofpirl]

I went to Revivals with my aunt when little. People did altar calls and got religion every year. THat was usually the extent of it.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1090530' date='Oct 13 2006, 09:03 AM']
For all of my Protestant brethren. I asked this question on another board, and it hasnt been answered yet.

But what is revival? If a church is biblicaly and doctrinaly sound, why do we need revival? Is revival an emotional deal that we have to go through in order to feel like we are close to the divine? A hit that we must have every other year in order to feel the Spirit?

I'm protestant myself, and I never understood the concept of revival if the church is doing what it is suppose to be doing. Why do we need revival if the church is based off the Bible as the sole source, and bases of our doctrines?
Thanks for the replies!! For I honestly would like to know.
[/quote]
Catholics would probably use the term 'renewal' and seasonally practice it during Lent.

Jesus often uses the term 'Living Word', and Vine, and likens Faith sown in a garden. From the perspective that Grace is freely given without us earning it, we also know we have to tend to our Free Gift for it to bear fruit. A revival is time when people may examine their Faith Garden and do some trimming, rakeing, and fertilizing, and possibly enjoying and being thankful for some ripen fruits of Grace. For the 'OSAS' crowd and the Justified & Sanctified by Faith Alone crowd, it's confusing because they tend to forget that by Grace we are able to do good works, but that doesn't mean we do them.

[Budge]

Some get carried away with Revial, preaching there will be a world wide revival, when the Bible tells us there will be a great falling away.

My church does revival once a year, and it usually includes inviting as many unsaved people as possible to the church or ones who are backslidden. It also serves to help fire up Christians in general to rededicate their lives to Christ.

[quote]A revival is time when people may examine their Faith Garden and do some trimming, rakeing, and fertilizing, and possibly enjoying and being thankful for some ripen fruits of Grace[/quote]

I agree with this...

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093040' date='Oct 16 2006, 12:13 PM']
Some get carried away with Revial, preaching there will be a world wide revival, when the Bible tells us there will be a great falling away.

My church does revival once a year, and it usually includes inviting as many unsaved people as possible to the church or ones who are backslidden. It also serves to help fire up Christians in general to rededicate their lives to Christ.



I agree with this...
[/quote]
When I saw you agreed with me, I thought to myself, 'What did I say wrong?'

I shoulda said "[i]A revival is time when people may examine their Faith Garden and do some trimming, rakeing, and fertilizing, and possibly enjoying, being thankful for some ripen fruits of Grace[/i] [b]and making use of the Graces and it's fruits[/b].

[Budge]

[quote]
When I saw you agreed with me, I thought to myself, 'What did I say wrong?'[/quote]

uh oh...

[Eutychus]

[quote] But what is revival? If a church is biblicaly and doctrinaly sound, why do we need revival? [/quote]

To tell the truth, YOU DON"T.

Please never ever, not once, consider such a silly notion, OK? Please stay just the way you are, it suits you and there is NO need, whatsoever, to change anythink, OK?

[quote]

[quote]Date: 2005-07-07

The Most Allegedly Catholic Continent?

Miguel Pastorino on the State of Religion in Latin America

MONTEVIDEO, Uruguay, JULY 7, 2005 (Zenit.org).- The growth of Pentecostal denominations and other similar groups in Latin America is due to the "pastoral vacuum" that the Catholic Church has suffered in the last decades.

In this interview, Miguel Ángel Pastorino, director of Uruguay's Service for Study and Advice on Sects and New Religious Groups and member of the bishops' National Commission of Ecumenism and Interreligious Dialogue, addresses the current religious phenomenon in Latin America.

[color="#660000"][b]Q: In the 1980s, experts talked about a massive exodus of Latin American Catholics to sects, going so far as to number their defection rate at 400 believers per hour.[/b][/color]

Pastorino: Of course this "passage" of Catholics continues today. Not only is there an exodus to different Gnostic and esoteric proposals, Afro-American cults, para-Christian sects, spiritualism, and "platillista" sects [those that believe in UFOs], but there is also a silent turn to religious indifference, a product of the advanced secularization of large cities.
[color="#003333"]
[u]The Pentecostal movement is the one that has grown the most, and there is nothing that indicates a stagnation; rather, it seems to be growing wildly.

There is already talk of almost 150 million Pentecostals in Latin America, not counting the charismatics of other historical denominations. And specialists speak without much hesitation about the "Pentecostalization" of Latin America. In 1996 the Concilium review stated that already 400 million Christians were Pentecostals, but it also included the charismatics.[/u[/color]]

When Franz Damen spoke about the figure you mentioned, he was referring in the main to the Pentecostal groups, which at one point were all considered "fundamentalists sects"; today there is ecumenical dialogue with many of them. And the challenge is not easy, as the broad Pentecostal spectrum is very complex and there are many currents, from established churches committed to ecumenism and society, to dangerous sects that attack people's integrity.

[color="#660000"][b]Moreover, there is a Catholic self-deception when it comes to the numbers, in the most allegedly Catholic continent, which isn't so Catholic.

Given that the Church counts the number of persons baptized and does not take into account that the majority of them do not persevere in Catholicism, there is already talk among the social analysts of an evangelical majority in Latin America.

Already in 2000 there was talk of 26% of Pentecostals in Chile, 16% in Brazil, 34% in Guatemala, and I think that today the figures have surpassed these statistics.
[/b][/color]
At the financial level, the evangelical market moves just over $1 billion annually and generates some 2 million jobs. According to a recent study, since 1960 the evangelicals doubled their percentage presence in Paraguay, Venezuela, Panama and Haiti; they tripled their proportion in Argentina, Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic, and quadrupled in Brazil and Puerto Rico. They grew sixfold in Colombia and Ecuador, and grew sevenfold in Guatemala.

[b]In Uruguay, there are many nominal Christians, because 54% say they are Catholic, but only 2.3% attend Mass; and of those who attend Mass, not all are committed to the faith of the Church and its mission.[/b]

Instead, every converted Pentecostal is a militant in the faith and this is a real disadvantage for the historical Churches. Evangelicals in Uruguay have risen to 11%, and Afro-Brazilians to 9%.

[This is] except for Catholic ecclesial movements, which are experiencing vigorous growth in America, counteracting the progress of the sects and becoming a hope for Catholicism, being a source of vocations and formed, committed laymen.

Q: What are the main causes of this exit?

Pastorino: Although there are many causes of an external order to the historical Churches, the majority of them of a sociocultural order, [u]I think that no less important a reason is what John Paul II called the "pastoral vacuum," namely, the lack of committed spiritual care and solid doctrinal formation on the part of the Catholic Church, and also of the other historical Protestant churches which are declining in faithful in the same way.[/u]

After the Second Vatican Council, in our context ordinary pastoral activity favored personal processes and the social dimension, neglecting two fundamental aspects of religious experience: the spiritual and doctrinal dimensions, thus leaving a vacuum for "alternative" answers to proliferate.

This neglect, together with superficial evangelization which does not stress Christian identity very much, has ended up by diluting Catholic identity, reducing it to moral commitments or sacramental practices.

While the Church amalgamated itself with modernity and its faith in reason and progress, the modern world with all its myths and secular gods was falling.

Then the men and women of today, tired of modern institutions, bureaucracy, reason, and the exhaustion of so many utopian projects, are in search of experience, mysticism, an emotional spirituality; they are not interested in the "reasons" but in the "living," they do not care for "doctrine," but for "results."

Pastoral care was rationalized to the point of exhaustion; it was too modernized and bureaucratized. And postmodern man, desirous of encountering God, met only with ideologies, meetings, and excessive planning within his churches -- not inner experience. And this has led him to seek in other wells the "living water" which he doesn't find there, where it should abound.

In this regard, John Paul II said in 1992: "It can also happen that the faithful do not find in pastoral agents that strong sense of God that they should transmit in their lives."

This is why I think that the crisis of faith and spirituality in many sectors of the historical churches is one of the main causes of this massive exodus to the sects -- or to indifference -- but not to irreligion.

Eighty-one percent of Uruguayans say they believe in God; however, for the most part they believe "in their way" and the most common way of living the faith is a la carte, or in Peter Berger's words: "to believe without belonging." As I mentioned, only an infinitesimal percentage is found in traditional religious confessions.[/quote][/quote]

[Budge]

I read somewhere dont remember where that 400 an hour in Latin America are leaving the Catholic church to enter on fire Christian churches!

My church supports a missionary in Bolivia, I know personally from her of the lives that have been changed!

[Eutychus]

And just so you cannot say that was LATIN AMERICA only, here is last weeks update from the top dog for these matters at the Vatican itself, speaking to Americans in Pittsburgh, PA.

[quote][color="#660000"]Irony Alert![/color]

Let's see here.

A few years ago, the Pope called Pentecostals "sects" and WARNED the Catholic world that they were evil, horrid, and would steal your soul if you were not careful.

NOW, they are saying [u]"We need to LEARN from them!"
[/u]
Could it be, that in the last 20 years, the 75,000,000 Roman Catholics that ran screaming FROM the pandering petticoat prissies, and embraced the bible and normal Christianity, JUST MIGHT have something to do with the "change" of VERBIAGE emmanating from Rome?

Nah....I'm just delusional. They still detest Pentecostals/Evangelicals, they just WANT to pretend to be more like them, while continuing to do the same old same old....



[quote]Learn from Pentecostals, Catholic leader says

German cardinal addresses concerns in speech at Duquesne University

Tuesday, October 10, 2006

By Ann Rodgers, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Cardinal Walter Kasper
[u]
Before criticizing Pentecostal churches that draw Catholics as members, Catholic leaders should ask why their own parishes aren't meeting the needs of those who leave, the Vatican's top ecumenical representative said yesterday at Duquesne University.

"Our response cannot be in the form of a polemical approach, leaving ourselves to condemn the activities of other groups," said Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity. Such an approach "is not constructive and could even be counter-productive," he said.[/u]

While Cardinal Kasper is known for outreach to traditional Protestant and Orthodox churches, he said it is crucial to be engaged with a diverse global Pentecostal movement that now claims 600 million adherents.

He spoke to an audience of about 225, including Bishop Paul Bradley, administrator of the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh, Metropolitan Basil Schott of the Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, Episcopal Bishop Robert Duncan of Pittsburgh and Metropolitan Nicholas of the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church of Johnstown.

Cardinal Kasper, 73, is a German theologian and former diocesan bishop. He flashed a broad smile, displaying the demeanor that has reportedly caused some U.S. bishops to nickname him Kasper the Friendly Cardinal.

His talk focused on Pentecostalism, a Christian movement that emphasizes supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and faith healing -- and which has often clashed with Catholicism. But he noted that in 1967 Duquesne University was the birthplace of the Catholic charismatic movement, which has brought Pentecostal practices into the Catholic church. The Catholic charismatic movement offers a way of holding people within parishes when they might otherwise leave, he said.

[b]Rather than criticize Pentecostals, "We should ask ourselves, 'Why do some of our Catholics leave?' " he said.

[u]Often they long for a sense of Christian community and direct spiritual experience that they find lacking in large parishes,[/u] he said. Many haven't been taught enough about their own faith to respond to the criticisms that Pentecostals may confront them with. These problems are acute in the global South, he said.
[/b]
Better faith formation is needed "to enable Catholics to respond to this propaganda ... in particular, for less educated and poor Catholics," he said.

Such education must teach the faith without denigrating other Christian traditions, he said.

[u]"Unfortunately parishes in some parts of he so-called Third World are often so large that our faithful do not feel at home, and many often feel abandoned and neglected,"[/u] he said. He urged parishes to start small prayer groups, youth groups and Bible studies where people can form a close spiritual community.[/font]

Although there is a tendency to think of ecumenical dialogue as the work of theologians, all Christians need to make it part of their daily lives, he said.

"Catholics and Pentecostals live and work together in many ways on a daily basis," he said, "There can be joyful and happy events and sad events in the family or community where they could express solidarity ... A beginning of small gestures is important in many ways."

Bishop Bradley found the cardinal's advice pertinent.

"The challenge he gave to us is to ask ourselves the question -- 'What are they leaving us for?' -- so we can respond in a more pastoral and caring way," he said.

The Rev. Lou Vallone, pastor of St. John of God Catholic parish in McKees Rocks, once participated in a joint Catholic and Pentecostal medical mission to Mexico. He believes there is hope of rebuilding ties with ex-Catholics who miss Catholic sacramental and devotional life.

"People are attracted to the emotionalism and high levels of joy, but they miss the Mass," he said. "When we held Mass on the mission trip, it wasn't just the Catholics who came. Everybody showed up. It was like a coming home for them."

The Rev. Donald Green, executive director of Christian Associates of Southwest Pennsylvania, said that ecumenical organization includes no Pentecostal denominations because they have no hierarchy or executives to represent them. He endorsed Cardinal Kasper's call for building relationships at pew level.

"We have to move to the reality of grassroots ecumenism," he said.

(Ann Rodgers[/quote]

Rather like LOCKING the BARNYARD door....AFTER the cows have all left, isn't it?

[/quote]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1096393' date='Oct 19 2006, 09:05 PM']
I read somewhere dont remember where that 400 an hour in Latin America are leaving the Catholic church to enter on fire Christian churches!

My church supports a missionary in Bolivia, I know personally from her of the lives that have been changed!


[/quote]That's the protty's for you. Get Christians to switch denominations instead of getting pagans to embrace Christianity. Let's see now. Figure that people don't convert when they're sleeping, so 16 hours a day is 2.3 million per year in a population of 513 million in 2000, so that's less than 1/2% of the population switching denominations. If I was the devil, I'd be glad that Christians are wasting their time getting each other to switch denominations instead of getting non-Christians to embrace Christianity.

[Eutychus]

[quote] That's the protty's for you. Get Christians to switch denominations instead of getting pagans to embrace Christianity. [/quote]

The 50,000,000 Latin Americans that have left the syncratic/paganism behind for "mere Christianity" just might disagree with you there.

[Justified Saint]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58101&hl="]Not all Pentecostals are fundamentalists[/url]. Actually, it seems that many are concerned with teaching Christians baptism in the spirit and not trying to get Christians to switch denominations.

Many have abandoned their snake-handling ways, but there are always some that remain...

[desertwoman]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1096390' date='Oct 19 2006, 10:59 PM']
To tell the truth, YOU DON"T.

Please never ever, not once, consider such a silly notion, OK? Please stay just the way you are, it suits you and there is NO need, whatsoever, to change anythink, OK?
[/quote]



Ahhh... I"m not Catholic, and what does revival have to do with Latin American's leaving the CAtholic CHurch, when I"m asking about revival in the Protestant tradition.

I"m asking if the church attended is based Biblically and is scripturaly sound, why have a revival?

Thanks for others for answering, and the Faith Garden thing is a cool summary. Thanks all.

[Mary-Kathryn]

When I was a girl, it usually entailed a guust preacher being invited to the church for a week. He would preach every night for a week and each evening he would invite people to come to the altar to "receive Jesus"...I forget the exact words...its been years ago.

It was held usually towards the end of summer, after harvesting was done and everyone had more time.

I know thats probably vague...its been a long time ago.

Edited October 20, 2006 by Mary-Kathryn

[Eutychus]

[quote]Many have abandoned their snake-handling ways, but there are always some that remain... [/quote]

Yeah, all 50 MILLION Latin American EX Catholics are just confused?

[b]Is that why the Vatican THIS WEEK in Pittsburgh had a conference where KASPAR himself said that the Catholic Church needed to be MORE LIKE the Pentecostals? That they had "something" that the Catholic Church lacked and that the Catholic Church had better EMULATE them quick, if they were to salvage anything of Latin America?

I guess Kaspar will be bringing in the snakes soon then, IF YOUR theory holds water, huh?[/b]

[quote]Cardinal Walter Kasper

Before criticizing Pentecostal churches that draw Catholics as members, Catholic leaders should ask why their own parishes aren't meeting the needs of those who leave, the Vatican's top ecumenical representative said yesterday at Duquesne University.[/quote]

Edited October 20, 2006 by Eutychus