The Order Of Mt. Carmel

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1141266' date='Dec 13 2006, 11:53 AM']
I honestly do not know much about cloisters, but I know there is a Carmelite monastery in St. Louis, MO where Our Lord is exposed all day long. The seem to have had a good number of vocations recently, so you may want to check it out.
Here's their website: [url="http://www.stormpages.com/mtcarmel/"]Carmel of St. Louis[/url]

You'll be in my prayers! Keep us updated!

In Christ, the author of Life,
Lauren
[/quote]

Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus? I believe there is a cloistered Carmelite Commuity that has Adoration on First Fridays, but I don't remember if it is in St. Louis or not.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1142162' date='Dec 14 2006, 10:38 AM']
Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus? I believe there is a cloistered Carmelite Commuity that has Adoration on First Fridays, but I don't remember if it is in St. Louis or not.
[/quote]
In the archdiocese of St. Louis there are three Carmelite communities: Carmelite Missionaries of St. Teresa; Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus; Discalced Carmelites.

The discalced (cloistered) sisters (nuns) do have adoration and a LOVELY chapel here in town.

Edited December 14, 2006 by shortnun

[HeavenlyCalling]

Ok, I just called the Monestary and even though I didn't get to ask my questions, I did have a very nice chat with one of the sisters ( not sure which one, she didn't say her name) I needed prayers for my great-grandfather, who is going through a really rough spot right now, and we dont know if he's going to live, so I'm asking your prayers too. I'll write more when I call the Monestary and ask my questions, particularly if they have a new postulent ( I think they do ).
God Bless

[brendan1104]

Unless you're sure it was one of the sisters- as in they told you- it was one of the third order members or lay helpers.

And they received a postulant on the 8th. I think another's due to enter soon.

And Buffalo has adoration on First Fridays and Third Sundays.

[Chiquitunga]

[size=2][font="Garamond"][center]By the way, before I forget, [/size]

[size=4][b][font="Garamond"]Happy Feast of St John of the Cross to everyone! [/font][/b][/size]
[img]http://www.carmelite.com/im/juancrux.jpg[/img][/center][/font]

Edited December 15, 2006 by Margaret Clare

[HeavenlyCalling]

I just got off the phone with Mother Miram again, she's so wonderful and kind. She said that they did have a postulent enter on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, and the other girl is looking to enter in the spring. The externs are NOT included in the 21 count, at least not in Buffalo, I dont know if that is a universal Carmelite thing or not. And I asked how long the formation was and Mother said it changed from person to person, but that this was a basic outline:

Postulency: 6 months to 1 year
Novice: 1 to 2 years
Temporary Vows: 3 years, but can be extened.

Just thought I'd let every one know. Please keep my an mine in your prayers, as my great-grandfather just passed away ( Mother said that they would keep praying for him)

[Jennifer]

for you and your family.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1143220' date='Dec 15 2006, 03:59 PM']
I just got off the phone with Mother Miram again, she's so wonderful and kind. She said that they did have a postulent enter on the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, and the other girl is looking to enter in the spring. The externs are NOT included in the 21 count, at least not in Buffalo, I dont know if that is a universal Carmelite thing or not.
[/quote]

Lily, Thanks for sharing! :j Probably the 21 count for the cloister only is a universal thing if that's how it is in Buffalo. That's great! I thought it was 27 when I was there, which makes more sense now knowing this, since there were 2 externs, and I believe 5 were going to Brooklyn. So now you know even more that there will definitely be a place for you.

[Chiquitunga]

I thought I would post information and pictures of some Carmelite communities and who they are here. (I do focus more on the nuns here, as I do not know very much about the monks and all the male Carmelite religious in the world - feel free to add more about them too)

First, there are 2 'Orders of Mt. Carmel' in the Church today. (I thought I would write this in case if someone is searching online for Carmelites and comes here, they'll find a simple explanation - then they can search further for more information - feel free to correct any information here)

The Carmelites of the Ancient Observance is the first Order that originated with the hermits on Mount Carmel in Palestine. They sign after their names, O.Carm. There are several good Carmelites from this Order today. There are a couple monasteries of cloistered nuns associated with the [url="http://www.religiouslife.com"]IRL[/url], which you can find on their Vocation Search, searching 'Carmel.' There are also great new communities of Carmelite monks who have been agragated into this Order, like the [url="http://www.decorcarmeli.com/Hermits.htm"]Hermits of the Blessed Virgin Mary[/url].

Here's a picture of some of the cloistered O.Carm. nuns (Coopersburg, PA):
[img]http://religiouslife.com/vocsearch/images/reg/reg_31.jpg[/img]

They love all the Carmelite saints, like St. Teresa of Avila, and definitely read her writings, but she is not specifically their Mother and Foundress, like the Discalced Carmelites.

The 2nd Order of Carmel in the Church is the Discalced (without shoes) Carmelite Order. They are a reform of the Carmelite Order, founded by the great St. Teresa of Avila in the 1500s. St. Teresa was a nun in the O.Carm. Order, in a community that had become lax in many practices of religious life. So St. Teresa founded her own Carmel, where strict observance of enclosure was to be observed among other things, like limiting the numbers of nuns per each monastery. A co-founder with her was St. John of the Cross. The Discalced Carmelites are both monks and nuns, like the O.Carm. Order. This is the Order which most of the well known Carmelite saints were in, like St. Therese of the Child Jesus and Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity. There are 60something OCD Carmels in the US. Here is a thread that explains the 2 different Constituions ( [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=58540"]1990 & 1991[/url] ) of the OCD nuns today. And here is a picture of the cloistered nuns (Morristown, NJ):
[img]http://www.religiouslife.com/images/carmelite_sisters.jpg[/img]

Then there are the many great contemplative/active Carmelite congregations, often affiliated with either of the Orders. The first that comes to mind are the Carmelites of the Divine Heart of Jesus, who sign after their names, DCJ. ([url="http://www.carmelitedcj.org/"]Central Province[/url], [url="http://www.carmelitedcjnorth.org/"]Northern Province[/url]) Here is a picture:
[img]http://www.carmelitedcj.org/ss/5.jpg[/img]

Then there are the [url="http://www.carmelitesisters.com/"]Carmelite Sisters for the Aged and Infirm[/url], whose motto is "The Difference is Love." They are a part of the Ancient Carmelite Order and sign after their names, O.Carm. Here is a nice little picture I found on the [url="http://www.cmswr.org/"]CMSWR site[/url]:
[img]http://www.cmswr.org/member_communities/Images%20Member%20Communities/pope.GIF[/img]

Then there are the [url="http://www.carmel-msh.org/"]Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart[/url] of Los Angeles, which are affiliated with the OCDs. (website has music - the sisters singing ). They are featured on the IRL Completely Christ's vocation DVD. They also give annual women's retreats for Magdalen College. And here is a picture:
[img]http://www.shretreathouse.org/Generalate/SistersRoster/Images/Sisters.jpg[/img]

Finally, the last congregation that comes to mind that is contemplative/active is the Congregation of the Mother of Carmel, affiliated with the OCDs. They sign after their names, CMC, and are often called the CMC sisters. I believe they are pretty much an all Indian congregation because all the formation is in Kerala, India. They are in the Syro Malabar rite of the Church, though they all know very well the Roman rite, and attend mostly the Roman Mass here in the US. I mention them just because they are not very well known in the Western world of religious life, though they actually have more sisters than the Missionaries of Charity. We have several convents of them in the Chicago area. They are mostly either teachers or nurses. Their founder is [url="http://www.blessedchavara.org/Home.asp"]Blessed Chavara[/url] (who also founded the male branch, the Carmelites of Mary Immaculate, CMI) and foundress, [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/sainte4t.htm"]Blessed Eufrasia[/url], recently beatified. Here is the only picture I could find online of one with the white version of their habit (as it gets really hot in India) - the other looks similar to the DCJs - they also work with the DCJs in WI and possibly stay in the same convent - I'm not sure. When they wear it around here, mostly in the Summer, they say many people ask if they're Dominicans. :j
[img]http://www.spraguephoto.com/stock/images/India/06in241.jpg[/img]

And that's it for my post on all the Carmelites. I only mentioned the few I could think of just now that are contemplative/active, but feel free to add more! And here is a site with all the [url="http://www.ocd.pcn.net/ist_cong.htm"]Congregations Affiliated with the Discalced Carmelite Order[/url].

Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever!

[Jennifer]

Thank you M C for this detailed information and the pictures which were truly lovely.

[Chiquitunga]

I just read something new about the monastery of the Carmelite Nuns of the Ancient Observance in Coopersburg, PA. This monastery was founded in 1931 by Mother Therese of Jesus, as the Carmelite Monastery of St. Therese of the Child Jesus and St. Mary Magdalen de Pazzi. They are heavily influenced by the St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of Cross, though they are a part of the original O.Carm. Order.

Anyway, Mother Therese's body was found incorrupt and the case may be investigated by the Church. [url="http://www.spiritdaily.org/Sign_Wonders/Mothertherese.htm"]Mother Therese's Body Found Intact[/url]

Edited December 16, 2006 by Margaret Clare

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned the [url="http://www.corpuschristicarmelites.org"]Carmelite Sisters of Corpus Christi[/url] yet. They are a contemplative/active community of the Ancient Observance. They have a very unusual history - they originally started out as Dominican tertiaries.

[Chiquitunga]

Another way to find great Carmels, besides looking only at ones with the 1990 Constituations, would be the ones in [url="http://www.flemingtoncarmel.org/StJoseph.htm"]St. Joseph's Association[/url] (1990 & 1991's, living out a traditional interpretation of the Rule)

also the Carmel in Des Plaines IL (1990) told me Terre Haute (1991) is very good

I visited the Carmel in St. Louis, MO. It is a beautiful old monastery. They are part of St. Teresa's Association (1991's) which does have meetings outside the monastery every 3 years or so. I believe only a couple of the nuns from each monastery goes each time. But still they were a great community - different than the 1990 Carmels in certain things though.

The adoration is really a unique thing about their Carmel. I'm pretty sure it was the bishop of St. Louis who asked them if they would slightly change their way of life to fit in adoration thoroughout the day, where the public could also come and adore on the other side of the cloister. It is an incredibly beautiful old chapel.

Other differences ... They are allowed to watch some religious programs or tapes on TV, while the 1990s definitely are not. In Buffalo, the only time they could ever watch a tiny bit of TV would be for something like the installation of a new Holy Father. But for anything else, it is strictly prohibited. For instance, they did not see [i]The Passion of the Christ[/i].

I really like the strict fidelity to a traditional interpretation of the Rule of the 1990 Carmels (and some of the 1991s), but some of the others can be great too.

[HeavenlyCalling]

Has anyone in the pham ever discerned with the Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Los Angeles? They seem like a really cool order, but I dont recall anyone ever talking about them here...

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1150949' date='Dec 28 2006, 02:09 PM']
Has anyone in the pham ever discerned with the Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Los Angeles? They seem like a really cool order, but I dont recall anyone ever talking about them here...
[/quote]

I haven't ... yeah, they do seem like a great Order, and they have so many vocations these days ..