Scribes And Rabbis - History?

[Bruce S]

There once was a body of literature, intially written by a wandering band of misfits, fleeing from a superpower, who began writing things down, journaling their history, their wars, their stuggles for national identity. Some even said that God was foretold in their books.

They even were disbursed over the nations of the day, authors wrote without attribution often, from various times and places. Never once was a council established that definitively agreed, what books and authors were authentic. Nor did they have theologians to tell them all what the nation/state/religion agreed.

That ragged disjointed band of misfits produced a series of books that all now concede is remarkable for it's clarity, when read as a continuation of history and theology.

No one cannonized those for that group, not for 2000 years. And even then, it was only a translation effort that set forth any agreed set of books, till then, they were consistantly agreed upon for the most part.

How was that possible? And why is a central authority even needed if God did so well with that earlier version of his word?

Scribes and Rabbis were expected to squabble.

Even the name, Isra-el means..."He who wrestles/struggles/fights with God"

It is in the NON agreement that the understanding was worked out, but without a definitive national church, this never could have happened?

Right?

Edited January 11, 2004 by Bruce S

[Circle_Master]

if anyone mentions the "chair of moses" i'll bite them and then proceed to rip them apart

(not literally! sheesh)

Edited January 11, 2004 by Circle_Master

[Archangel]

And after all this time, aren't they still waiting for a messiah?

[Bruce S]

Yes. They were HORRIDLY wrong. In fact, the very MISTAKES that they made, including missing out on Jesus.

Many times they have been shown to be incapable of even LISTENING to those very men, who, later, they enshrined in their scripture.

Yet none of us today thinks that invalidated the preservation, SELECTION, and accurate transmission OF scripture.

So, how could God have such a thing be so? Fallible men, over thousands of years, without a central leadership structure over that time?

Is the cannonization OF scripture, something GOD does, and not men?

Doe this show that preservation OF scripture, when man tries to do it couldn't be done?

Edited January 12, 2004 by Bruce S

[cmotherofpirl]

oh... so Abraham Isaac Jacob Joseph Moses Joshua Elijah Isaiah etc had nothing to do with it?

:rolling:

[Bruce S]

oh... so Abraham Isaac Jacob Joseph Moses Joshua Elijah Isaiah etc had nothing to do with it?

Of course they did. Who is denying that?

However, thousands and thousands of OTHER men, wrote too.

Why THOSE particular men, who selected their works as authoritative and definitive, and rejected the other myriad competing authors?

In fact, for MOST of the books of the OT, the authorship isn't even known. And even those that we THINK we have authorship for, like the Pentatuch have phrases and information inside of them that would indicate, that they too, were partially collaborative efforts.

So.

How could this selection process have happened without authority?

Edited January 12, 2004 by Bruce S

[Anna]

Hmmmmmmm. Well, how many Jewish Faiths are there? I'd say they're pretty structured.

[Bruce S]

Hmmmmmmm. Well, how many Jewish Faiths are there? I'd say they're pretty structured.

Grin. Hey Anna, you don't get into Jewish discussion sites much do you?

They make US look united.

No two Jews, let alone thought groups of Jews can agree on the meaning of ONE "jot" let alone a "tittle."

In fact, the ONLY thing they agree on totally, is Christians are wrong.

:wacko:

Edited January 12, 2004 by Bruce S

[hyperdulia again]

Catholics and Protestants are unified. When the persecutions and state sponnsored suppressions start (so long as it's Christians doing the persecuting and suppressing) we live, cry, and die together.

[Bruce S]

Catholics and Protestants are unified. When the persecutions and state sponnsored suppressions start (so long as it's Christians doing the persecuting and suppressing) we live, cry, and die together.

Hallelujah! Amen sis.

Now you are moving in the right direction.

And why might that BE?

Hoping against all hope that we are going in the same stream here?

[hyperdulia again]

Firstly I'm a brother.

Secondly the only WHY I can up with is Jesus. You have Him (which no one here would deny). And I have Him.

Edited January 12, 2004 by hyperdulia again

[Bruce S]

Oops.

Sorry. The Mary icon threw me.

On aother board they have this little male female icon thing, nice.

Edited January 12, 2004 by Bruce S

[Cure of Ars]

How could this selection process have happened without authority?

What makes you think that there was not authority? Jesus' reffering to the "seat of Moses" is proof enough that there was authority from at least Moses all they down to Jesus day.

[Anna]

if anyone mentions the "chair of moses" i'll bite them and then proceed to rip them apart

(not literally! sheesh)

Oh no, Cure, look out!

[Anna]

Bruce,

Today's Jews may be fragmented, via cultural vs. religious standards, etc.

But I think that in Christ's time, they were quite united, and there was definitely a hierarchy.

Though the Scribes and Pharisees may have abused their authority; they certainly did have authority.

And who said they never had any councils?

The council of Jamnia around 100 AD got rid of the deuterocanonical books because they contained to many references pointing to Christ as the Messiah.

Pax Christi. <><