Did He Plan It?

[M.SIGGA]

I'm not voting for anyone.  The people who are as far left as I am fiscally (Green Party) are pro-baby murder.  Bush is pro-baby murder (if they've been born and speak arabic).  Therefore I shan't be rockin' da vote.

I really think I might be following you on this one. I don't want to sin through supporting an abortion candidate and I'll be damned in hell before supporting the antichrist George W Bush. All the candidates are especially evil when it comes to charity and social justice, especially the lying President.

[M.SIGGA]

Some more stuff on why the issue of abortion should trump all other considerations.

"Indeed, the failure to protect and defend life in its most vulnerable stages renders suspect and claims to the 'rightness' of positions in other matters affecting the poorest and least powerful of the human community." (US Bishops, 1998, Living the Gospel of Life, n.23)

"Above all, the common outcry, which is justly made on behalf of human rights--for example, the right to health, to home, to work, to family, to culture--is false and illusory if the right to life, the most basic and fundamental right, and the condition of all other personal rights, is not defended with maximum determination." (Pope John Paul II, 1988, Christefideles Laici, n.3

(Both taken from the Jan/Feb 04 Priests for Life)

What does the Pope say about supporting Fascism?

[Carrie]

I really think I might be following you on this one. I don't want to sin through supporting an abortion candidate and I'll be damned in hell before supporting the antichrist George W Bush. All the candidates are especially evil when it comes to charity and social justice, especially the lying President.

This is also what I've decided. I won't sin by voting for a pro-abortion candidate but I cannot and will not vote for Bush. Ironmonk, you said a "no vote" is a vote for baby-killers, but a "no-vote" can work either way, so you can't say that for a fact.

[jrndveritatis]

What does the Pope say about supporting Fascism?

I believe the Vatican has consistently opposed and condemned Fascism. I don't see how this is relevant to this topic. I find it hard to believe that anyone would honestly call Bush a Fascist. That would be ridiculous in the extreme.

[M.SIGGA]

I believe the Vatican has consistently opposed and condemned Fascism.  I don't see how this is relevant to this topic.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would honestly call Bush a Fascist.  That would be ridiculous in the extreme.

He's not a dictator and not even close to being a Franco or Hitler or Mussolini, but certain aspects of fascism can define him and his administration. Anything otherwise is naivety.

From A Dictionary of Political Thought by Roger Scruton:

"The ultimate doctrine (fascism) contains little that is specific, beyond an appeal to energy, and action."

I understand he's the most "pro-life" politician and we are called to give up our personal issues for the sake of the unborn, but that doesn't mean all his other policies have to be deemed as socially, morally, and politically acceptable too.

[CICCIO]

As i understand it, Bill Clinton was also to an extent focused on removing Saddam.

...the link i went to didnt work so uhope that wasnt mentioned or i'd look like a fool ...

on second thought maybe it would be better if it had been. the whole truth is important!

[Winchester]

So we're angry at Bush for cutting socialist programs? I'm trying to square that with the Church's condmenation of socialism. Our social programs do not work. They create and support an underclass, they make those fighting for a living through hard labor feel animosity toward the poor, they increase taxation, which reduces charity, they build government intrusion (you have to prove yourself innocent to the IRS, a little revivification of Roman Law, but without the outs of that old system).

They could work, but it will take a gutting of the system and a reliance on groups like Catholic Charities, who do far more with much less.

Are we mad at Bush about the WMD thing? Turn off your tube and go to Iraq. You think any other candidate didn't lie to us? Who'd you vote for, Gore? Did you read his environment book and the things he said about Christianity? How about that psycho Nader from the Green Party? You really want to talk fascism, let's talk about candidates who believe we should onnly allow police to have guns, a trait democrats share with Hitler, whom I believe Bush was compared to earlier.

I'm going to repeat this: I pay outrageous taxes to support an ineffective and evil schools system and property taxes to support inadequate infrastructure. I work for a living, but thanks to socialist programs, my health insurance and taxes soared, eating up what I literally put my life on the line to earn. I'm working America, but I never got a break under Democratic leadership, although I did see breaks blocked under such leadership. I work in a poor neighborhood, and I didn't see one significant improvement to that neighborhood from any stinking Democrat, and that's reality. I've seen CHIP established on the backs of people who work, while those who make 7 (7!) digit salaries at a non-profit hospital get the credit (thus utterly destroying any meaning to that phrase "non-profit"), and guess what, they're all democrats, rich jerk included. Now, does he live in a home like mine or slightly better and drive a normal car to work becuase being so frekaing interested in the poor he donates his excess profits?

No, he has a yacht, a 1mil house and luxury cars.

Gee, what kind of lifestyles do our oh so concerned about the poor democratic leaders lead? Are they living modestly and donating their excess to charities, thus putting their money where theiur mouths are? You know, if all these alleged good samaritans would quit wasting time on legislation and government handouts and instead donate their millions to charities, the situation woulld actually improve and maybe I could get a little break on mypaycheck.

I submit that it is less an investment to rail against the Man from one of the House seats than it is to actually cut a vein and bleed a little back to the people who elected you.

[M.SIGGA]

Democrats and their pandering tripe have done nothing to address actual social ills. They are at least as vile as the likes of Geroge Bush.

Vote Cthulu. Why settle for the lesser of two evils.

if this is your position, why did you say this already? Al Gore is an idiot and I supported McCain, who is a real politician, a real self-made man, and a war hero. I'm voting Cthulu too.

[Winchester]

I'm just saying...

McCain?

[Sojourner]

I know a lot of otherwise sane people who liked McCain. I'm not one of them, but I'm just saying I know some people.

[Winchester]

Ah...

I liked Alan Keyes.

[Sojourner]

Yeah, I liked him too. I wish he'd become more popular and run again.