How St. Teresa Led Me Away From God As A Child.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093799' date='Oct 17 2006, 10:07 AM']
Why would God be inaccurate about ANYTHING?
[/quote]
Well, you tell me...are you a geocentrist? I'm guessing not. Do you believe the Bible when it says that the earth is the center of the universe? The problem with the purely literalist interpretation of anything is that it doesn't look at the point, but only at the words. Words are symbols used together to represent thoughts and ideas. Literalism looks only at the symbols and fails to see beyond them. The stigmata is not an end in itself. The point isn't, "oh, look at his hands," the point is, "wow, this reminds me of what Christ did for me." Whether the wounds are in the wrists or palms, they still remind people of Christ's Crucifixion. The point isn't in the symbol, it's in the message the symbol conveys. Because many people believe that Christ was nailed in the hands, God, trying to remind them of the Crucifixion, may put the marks of the stigmata on someone's hands instead of on their wrists, so that the people may more fully appreciate the meaning.

[quote]Also the message of stigmata, is based in sinful pride, "I will suffer for my own sins, bleeding and oozing sores" instead of standing on the sufficency of Christ's sacrifice.[/quote]

The stigmata has nothing to do with pride. Have you ever read a Catholic biography of St. Francis? The man didn't have that much pride.

Further, all salvation stands on the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice. It does. The Catholic Church says this. Then why all the talk of "redemptive suffering" and "penance"? Because while Christ has earned the salvation for the whole world, the whole world has not yet come to be saved...why is that? Because the whole world has not yet accepted Christ's message completely.

Now, since to accept salvation, we must become co-heirs with Christ (because salvation is His inheritance which He passes to us if we are His co-heirs), we must become His co-workers, that is, we must cooperate with grace. In order to do this, we need, by necessity, to be conformed to Him, not only in soul, but in body, so that the whole man may be saved, and this is why we must become members of His Body, so that as a part of His Body, which was resurrected, we may also be resurrected. Therefore, we must grow in likeness to Him. As a result of such growth, we begin to take on His appearance, first in our actions and virtues and thoughts, but also in our bodies, expressing joy and smiling with happiness and becoming more humble and simple in our clothing and outward manner, until finally, at length, He begins to shine through, He who is living in us, and we bear the marks of the Lord.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Sorry - no time to read thru all 4 pages of this thread, so I shall comment on the title.

Budgie - why are you pinning this on St. Therese? Only one entity can lead you away from God...that would be Satan. Either he worked you directly or through his agents. St. Therese isn't one of them...

If you continue to assert as such, show me proof please. The HCC says she is in heaven praying for all our souls...prove otherwise.

[uruviel]

Budge,
if you were to have a vision of God, just try to imagine please? Do you think that God would speak in Hebrew, or Latin, or any other language other than what you understand best? God will speak to you in whatever you understand, if you understand gibberish, God will speak it to you, and it will mean just the same to you had He spoken English. Now, if someone recieves the stigmata, and they understand that the nails were in His palms, then that's where He would give them to you. I can not sit here and tell you what God would do, because I don't know what God would do. Yes, I'm making an assumption. Because it clearly does not make sense that God would communicate with you, in a way that you couldn't understand or interpret. He will put it in your palms if you will interpret that as something from Him. Does this make any sense? to anyone?
^_^GodBless

[Theunknown101]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093799' date='Oct 17 2006, 08:07 AM']Also the message of stigmata, is based in sinful pride, "I will suffer for my own sins, bleeding and oozing sores" instead of standing on the sufficency of Christ's sacrifice.
[/quote]

We share in a common priesthood with Christ. Our sufferings have value in Him. It is perfectly Biblical.

[quote name=' Colossians 1:24'](I) now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.[/quote]

[quote name='Matthew 5:5']Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.[/quote]

God bless!


(posted w/ my bro's screenname again, grr...)

Edited October 27, 2006 by Theunknown101

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1093799' date='Oct 17 2006, 09:07 AM']
Why would God be inaccurate about ANYTHING?

Also the message of stigmata, is based in sinful pride, "I will suffer for my own sins, bleeding and oozing sores" instead of standing on the sufficency of Christ's sacrifice.
[/quote]


[quote name='Budge' post='1103165' date='Oct 28 2006, 11:31 AM']
Why not apologize?

I think the Prots {calvinists, puritans} who burned people at the stake also were wrong. They followed the messages of Satan rather then the commandments of Christ.

How hard is that to say?

The Catholic church always seems more intent on protecting and defending ITSELF rather then TRUTH. That is one of the most disturbing qualities about it.
[/quote]


So you have the ability to judge hearts!

[Budge]

the heart is a deceitful thing, that is what the BIble teaches.

[Winchester]

But you can see into it.

[Winchester]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=59682"]Please read the rebuttal thread. This is a link. See the little hand? Now Click![/url]

[uruviel]

[Gadfly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1080713' date='Oct 1 2006, 12:23 PM']
Just read this from a writing about St. Teresa...
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/therese/readings/readng4.htm"]LINK[/url]

Consider how this is a twisted presentation of Gods love...Gods Love does not destroy it heals. This is an example of Teresa being in delusion from a false spirit leading her away from the true nature of God.
Looking to her own sufferings over and over....[/quote]

God's Love doesn't cause suffering? Tell that to the crucifided Lord. If Jesus had not Loved he would not have suffered. As for us Love of God will bring us suffering. "And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, [b]Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.[/b]" Mark 8:34. Why do think that Aspostles were matyared to the last man? (Except John?) Why is that those who loved God the most suffered the most? In fact look at the great protestant missionaries. Which of them didn't endure agonizing hardship? God's love will bring suffering, but in reality of enternity only eternal joy.

[quote]Refusing to kill flies that hovered over her while she was ill.

From Mother Agnes's notes
[link=www.ewtn.com/therese/readings/readng9.htm]www.ewtn.com/therese/readings/readng9.htm[/link]
So as I read this book on Teresas life, as a young child, I found myself led away from God. I saw a young seemingly nice girl loved by her parents, who was literally being *tortured* by God. This was one thing that led me to atheism at a very young age. I in fact remember reading this book with a sense of horror and thinking I could never love a god like that. {I am sure some of this early discernment was related to the fact that God knew I was to be written in the book of life.}[/quote]

Saint Theresa didn't lead you to atheism. If you had followed her path you given yourself wholely to God, as she did (Not trying to be harsh). I also wonder if I can love God like St. Theresa. But what I do know is that neither of us know the joy she felt. Maybe she went abit far with the flies (I really can't say) but that doesn't change her real love for God. St. Paul also went off the deep end "but I [b]beat[/b] my body and bring it into submission, lest by any means, after I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected." 1 Corinthians 9:27