How St. Teresa Led Me Away From God As A Child.

[tonyofpadua]

Budge,

I cannot speak for the church, and I cannot speak for my other brothers and sisters here, but I can speak for myself.

[u]Story of a Soul[/u] changed my life, and brought me into a closer relationship with Jesus than any other book that I have ever read. The fact that you would make such an outlandish claim using superfluous arguments about flies is insulting to me, especially on her feast day.

I have respectfully read and considered what are now countless debates on this board that you have started with seemingly no other intention than to rile people up. And while I've bitten my toungue to the point of bleeding, the fact that you state that a loving, innocent, and all-together holy young woman has led people away from the Christ is an insult to her, me, and I'm sure other people.

Budge, I know that this post won't make you change your mind, and I respect your efforts to convert/expose people on this phorum to new ideas, but I think you could take a page from St. Therese when she says:

"[b]Without love, deeds, even the most brilliant, count as nothing.[/b]"

If I were you I would consider reading her masterwork again, as I doubt a young kid of 8-10 (as you state you were at the time) could fully wrap their mind around such brilliance. It's understandable how a child, even a brilliant one, could misinterpret her words as something else.

[quote]Like so many of these saints, they have communion with a false jesus that tells them to make themselves as victims and seek their salvation through their own suffering and works rather then trusting in Jesus Christ. [/quote]

Again, this insults me, as St. Therese's words brought me closer to Jesus, and even back to the church, when I was in a crisis of faith. Especially this one:

[b]"Be not afraid to tell Jesus that you love Him; even though it be without feeling, this is the way to oblige Him to help you, and carry you like a little child too feeble to walk."[/b]

I hope and pray that you too will experience the love of Jesus that St. Therese so beautifully exemplified and experienced to her death. May God be with you, and bless you in all your endeavors.

-Tony

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Rick777' post='1080840' date='Oct 1 2006, 01:13 PM']
Personally, I think Budge may have just scanned some of the first chapter online and then read a biography of her...
[/quote]
I'm not sure I care at this point. Budge has a strange obsession with Catholicism and yet avoids at all costs (even at the expense of rationality and sanity) even approaching the truth of what Catholicism is. I think the technical term for this would be neurosis.

[homeschoolmom]

Oh, I thought this was about St. Theresa (of Avila... Benedicta of the Cross etc.) but it's about St. Therese... Okay... procede....

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Mary-Kathryn' post='1080809' date='Oct 1 2006, 02:48 PM']
Budge,

I will not play your game since you are not truly interested in answers. Your interest is in getting people defensive as you twist things around. Then you sit back and enjoy as you watch the mess explode around you. Not worth the effort on this beautiful day. I will strongly suggest an excellent study edition of this book. [/quote]
you T-O-T-A-L-L-Y nailed it.

its about time we quit taking the bait here at phatmass.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='phatcatholic' post='1080846' date='Oct 1 2006, 01:17 PM']
you T-O-T-A-L-L-Y nailed it.

its about time we quit taking the bait here at phatmass.
[/quote]
while I agree, I must nonetheless suggest that bait can be fun.

authentic discussion is certainly a wonderful thing, but exchanging witty persiflage has a certain value of its own.

[Guest Rick777]

Well anyways, she was a GREAT saint. If anyone out there really does want to know more about her, here ya go: [url="http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintofDay/"]http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintofDay/[/url]

A nice article:
[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/catholic_stories/cs0178.htm"]http://catholiceducation.org/articles/cath...ries/cs0178.htm[/url]

Edited October 1, 2006 by Rick777

[Mercy me]

You don't get it, Budge. You just don't get it. And what is more you don't even seem to want to even try.

[Theoketos]

I was reflecting about this during lunch and then all of the sudden I was inspired by Jesus calling Peter Satan when St. Peter said to the Son of God that he should not have to suffer...

From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and [b]suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised. Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, "God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you." He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do." [/b]Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?

I think that the little flower wanted to be like Jesus. That is all.

So now budge, for telling me not offer suffering with or for our Lord, I say the same.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Theoketos' post='1080865' date='Oct 1 2006, 01:41 PM']
I was reflecting about this during lunch and then all of the sudden I was inspired by Jesus calling Peter Satan when St. Peter said to the Son of God that he should not have to suffer...

From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and [b]suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised. Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, "God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you." He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do." [/b]Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?

I think that the little flower wanted to be like Jesus. That is all.

So now budge, for telling me not offer suffering with or for our Lord, I say the same.
[/quote]
You can tell he's actually read the book.

:applause:

[Budge]

[quote]I think that the little flower wanted to be like Jesus. That is all. [/quote]

Actually I agree with you, [mod]Negative Criticism of Religious[/mod]

She actually was a nice girl, and it is sad to see what happened to her but then theres lot s of 'nice' people today who fall into witchcraft, the New age and other false cults.

I believe it is a TRAGEDY, what happened to her....

I am not against anyone suffering for the gospel, there is a difference between that and needless masochism, letting flies have at you fits the bill for the latter.

Edited October 2, 2006 by phatcatholic

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Budge' post='1081146' date='Oct 1 2006, 07:54 PM']
Actually I agree with you, [mod]see above[/mod]

She actually was a nice girl, and it is sad to see what happened to her but then theres lot s of 'nice' people today who fall into witchcraft, the New age and other false cults.

I believe it is a TRAGEDY, what happened to her....

I am not against anyone suffering for the gospel, there is a difference between that and needless masochism, letting flies have at you fits the bill for the latter.
[/quote]
Could you please provide EVIDENCE rather than OPINION that "a demon took over her life"? That is YOUR opinion. Any of us can MAKE UP our OWN OPINIONS as to what happens in the spiritual life of another... For EXAMPLE... I think that you were lead by a DEMON out of the CATHOLIC church into ATHEISM... THEN the demon lead you into the UU "church"... and then... a wolf in sheep's clothing (this demon) lead you into WHAT YOU THINK is the Truth... but it's just as Scripture warns of-- a wolf in sheep's clothing. You are being lead by an evil spirit... you have cut yourself off from the Church...

[Guest Rick777]

I take great offense to you calling a Doctor of the Church and one of the most beloved saints in the Church, a "nice girl" who unfortunately had a "demon" take over her life! I think you should be banned.

BTW: Her parents were also very saintly and she WAS given a Biblical foundation by her parents and especially by her Church. Geesh. The whole fly thing...just let it go...you obviously cannot fully comprehend Scripture or suffering.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Rick777

[Norseman82]

[color="#33CC00"]Budge,

I acknowledge that there are some Catholics who take suffering to nutty extremes, but the quote:

[quote]In order to live in one single act of perfect Love, I OFFER MYSELF AS A VICTIM OF HOLOCAUST TO YOUR MERCIFUL LOVE, Asking You to consume me incessantly, allowing the waves of infinite tenderness shut up within You to overflow into my soul, and that thusI may become a martyr of Your Love, O my God![/quote]

appears to be metaphorical in nature. She is asking to be consumed by Christ's love, in a poetical sort of way. [/color]

[Dave]

You should be ashamed of yourself, Budge. Slander/libel is objectively a mortal sin, and you've shown again and again, but especially in this thread, that you have a reckless DISREGARD for the truth. May God have mercy on your soul!

[Socrates]

Nice one, Budge, blame all your problems on St. Therese . . .

[quote]

[quote]I have found happiness and joy on earth, but solely in suffering, for I've suffered very much here below; you must make it known to souls . . . "Since my First Communion, since the time I asked Jesus to change all the consolations of this earth into bitterness for me, I had a perpetual desire to suffer.*[/quote]

This is just one example of one Catholic "saint" led into deceptions byt the false Christ taught in Catholcism.
[/quote]

Colossians 1:24: [quote][b]Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church[/b]:[/quote]

Mark 8:34: [quote]And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him [b]deny himself and take up his cross [/b] and follow me.[/quote]

Luke 9:23: [quote]And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him [b]deny himself and take up his cross daily [/b] and follow me.[/quote]

Were these Bible verses also deceptions from a "false Christ"?
They don't seem to come from Budge's warm fuzzy Jesus, who would never have any of his followers suffer!

(And somehow I doubt Budge actually read "Biography of a Soul" as a child. )