Assistant Suicide

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1085226' date='Oct 5 2006, 07:27 PM']
and I will tell you: you would be committing damnable mortal sin; the action of requesting someone to kill you is an action which nails Jesus to the cross. I offer you the chance to re-examine this issue and form your conscience correctly, because an improperly formed conscience, when you are given the chance to form it correctly, does not excuse. if you commit suicide in this situation, let me assure you of this: the suffering of the next life will be far more excruciating and eternal than any temporary suffering before death could ever be.
[/quote]
I wondered when the judgement would happen.
For it to be a mortal sin, full control of the will is required. desert is not talking about getting a diagnosis about a fatal disease and checking out before it gets rough. Being in actual flames is an incredible torture and the outcome is already known. Humans have dignity, even in death.

I would not choose to have my brains blown out if I was dying. I do believe in an afterlife and I would rather have the last few seconds of attachment to my body incase I still need to make peace with God and I need to ask forgiveness. Now if I was 100% sure, I might be willing for the 'bullet'.

[heavenseeker]

there is no such thing as assistant suicide.
you can
a) die of natural causes
b) in an acident
c) be killed (murdered)
d) suicide

In this case it is c or d you can not have both

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1085202' date='Oct 5 2006, 07:50 PM']
Mine not yours. This is my expression and wish if I was to be found in such a position and I"m going to face death any way. Instead of waisting away in agnoy, kill me. Show me some kind of mercy and compassion. I"m not going to make a law out of it. Its me.
[/quote]
[size=1]Suffering is a form of purification.
We all must go through purification to reach Heaven becuase our souls are stained with sin.
And if you think that you can just pay all your debts back in purgatory so you decide to kill yourself...lets just hope you are correct and you make it to purgatory.
[/size]

[Rire & Amour]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1083539' date='Oct 3 2006, 11:23 PM']
I would also help the woman in the alley way being consumed by rats... alive. Kill the rats. And if she is sucombing to the injuries and infection, and the doctors don't have anything for her... or there are no doctors around... instead of letting her waste away, show her mercy.

Killing people because of a mental handicap isn't the same as showing someone mercy because they are clearly dying and there is no other alternative besides watching them die.

For me, if you come around and see me being burned, eaten, or just writhing in sheer agony with no hope in sight... show me some mercy. Kill me... please. Don't stand there and watch me, do something.
[/quote]

[Rire & Amour]

I agree with what everyone else is saying on this subject. The problem with this belief in "mercy" killing is that sometimes people who cannot speak for themselves are killed by others because they believe that it is what the person truly wanted. On another note, this way of thinking also promotes euthanaisa, abortion, and the death penalty. Our society in general needs to forget these ridiculous ideas, and learn to value the precious gift of life that was given to us by God. Who are we to play God and decide when someone will live and when someone will die? We are basically saying that " God, you made a mistake, I/he/she is not supposed to be living anymore, so I am going to take matters in my own hands and do what I think should be done." You do not sound like a Catholic, but if you are then I suggest that you study your faith better. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church there is a section on suicide and I HIGHLY suggest that you read it: "Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetruate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family,nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. SUCIDE IS CONTRARY TO LOVE FOR THE LIVNG GOD." When you assist in a suicide or take your own life, its like spitting at God in the face. He gave you LIFE and you throw it back at him. I will pray for you.

[2xbob]

The question I have is how does this relate to DNR orders or living wills? That is not so much killing as letting death happen right?

[Rire & Amour]

[quote name='2xbob' post='1085365' date='Oct 5 2006, 11:40 PM']
The question I have is how does this relate to DNR orders or living wills? That is not so much killing as letting death happen right?
[/quote]




The fact of the matter is that we live in a culture of death, and all of those different things contribute to it and are connected in some way.

[let_go_let_God]

Reading this reminds me of two things.

The first is one of my friends older brother. He has Bi-polar disorder, autism, manic depression and a few other mental handicaps. On top of this he's 21 suffering from many physical ailments as well. I've had the honor of talking one on one with him and he bears his burden willingly and gladly. He told me once that he often can't control what he's doing but still confesses it and knows that God is perfecting him for heaven while he lives on earth through his suffering.

I am also reminded of St. Maria Faustina Kowalska. While she was gravely sick one day Jesus offered her to give up her life and spend one day in the flames of Purgatory or spend the rest of her life suffering and never have to step foot in Purgatory and help show the Divine Mercy that Jesus has for every soul. (It's in the begining of her first notebook, Sorry I can't find it for reference) She chose to suffer not only for her soul but the souls of many.

Suffering is very redemptive. Choosing suicide, even if it's assisted, is selfish and taking away the most precious gifts God gave you; your life.

God bless-
LGLG

Edited October 6, 2006 by let_go_let_God

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' post='1085378' date='Oct 5 2006, 11:53 PM']
Reading this reminds me of two things.

The first is one of my friends older brother. He has Bi-polor disorder, autism, manic depression and a few other mental handicaps. On top of this he's 21 suffering from many physical ailments as well. I've had the honor of talking one on one with him and he bears his burden willingly and gladly. He told me once that he often can't control what he's doing but still confesses it and knows that God is perfecting him for heaven while he lives on earth through his suffering.

I am also reminded of St. Maria Faustina Kowalska. While she was gravely sick one day Jesus offered her to give up her life and spend one day in the flames of Purgatory or spend the rest of her life suffering and never have to step foot in Purgatory and help show the Divine Mercy that Jesus has for every soul. (It's in the begining of her first notebook, Sorry I can't find it for reference) She chose to suffer not only for her soul but the souls of many.

Suffering is very redemptive. Choosing suicide, even if it's assisted, is selfish and taking away the most precious gifts God gave you; your life.

God bless-
LGLG
[/quote]

[Era Might]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' post='1085378' date='Oct 5 2006, 11:53 PM']I am also reminded of St. Maria Faustina Kowalska. While she was gravely sick one day Jesus offered her to give up her life and spend one day in the flames of Purgatory or spend the rest of her life suffering and never have to step foot in Purgatory and help show the Divine Mercy that Jesus has for every soul. (It's in the begining of her first notebook, Sorry I can't find it for reference) She chose to suffer not only for her soul but the souls of many. [/quote]
Yah, Sister Josefa Menendez was permitted to spend time in hell as reparation. She was a victim soul.

Also, St. Therese has a beautiful passage in her "Story of a Soul":

[quote]Like the Prophets and Doctors, I would be a light unto souls, I would travel to every land to preach Thy name, O my Beloved, and raise on heathen soil the glorious standard of Thy Cross. One mission alone would not satisfy my longings. I would spread the Gospel to the ends of the earth, even to the most distant isles. I would be a Missionary, not for a few years only, but, were it possible, from the beginning of the world till the consummation of time. Above all, I thirst for the Martyr’s crown. It was the desire of my earliest days, and the desire has deepened with the years passed in the Carmel’s narrow cell. But this too is folly, since I do not sigh for one torment; I need them all to slake my thirst. Like Thee, O Adorable Spouse, I would be scourged, I would be crucified! I would be flayed like St. Bartholomew, plunged into boiling oil like St. John, or, like St. Ignatius of Antioch, ground by the teeth of wild beasts into a bread worthy of God. With St. Agnes and St. Cecilia I would offer my neck to the sword of the executioner,and like Joan of Arc I would murmur the name of Jesus at the stake. My heart thrills at the thought of the frightful tortures Christians are to suffer at the time of Antichrist, and I long to undergo them all. Open, O Jesus, the Book of Life, in which are written the deeds of Thy Saints: all the deeds told in that book I long to have accomplished for Thee. To such folly as this what answer wilt Thou make? Is there on the face of this earth a soul more feeble than mine? And yet, precisely because I am feeble, it has delighted Thee to accede to my least and most child-like desires, and today it is Thy good pleasure to realize those other desires, more vast than the Universe.[/quote]

[desertwoman]

I still would have someone shoot me man. Instead of me lingiring for 10 mins in agony, kill me now. I'm going to die in either 10 mins, or one second. Give me a second.

My friend also suffers from bi polar, manic depressive, and fiber mialgesia (sp). She is in constant pain and suffering day to day. There are plenty of days that she wants to die, and she has also attempted suicide numerous of times. I don't see it as suicide for I"m going to die anyway ie the WTC. Darned if you, Darned if you don't. The only difference is that I will die in agnoy, while I will die quickly.

[Anomaly]

Hold the hand of a loved one in great pain...
Hold the hand of a dieing loved one...
Talk to somebody who knows they are going to die SOON.
You might not be so quick to dream on about the glory of suffering, as if it's just a choice.
It's not like catholic teaching says don't give pain meds to ease the suffering even if it quickens the inevitable death. From desert's persepctive, it's not wanting to end her life, it's wanting to end the suffering in the face of immediate and inevitable death.

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1085392' date='Oct 6 2006, 12:34 AM']
I still would have someone shoot me man. Instead of me lingiring for 10 mins in agony, kill me now. I'm going to die in either 10 mins, or one second. Give me a second.

My friend also suffers from bi polar, manic depressive, and fiber mialgesia (sp). She is in constant pain and suffering day to day. There are plenty of days that she wants to die, and she has also attempted suicide numerous of times. I don't see it as suicide for I"m going to die anyway ie the WTC. Darned if you, Darned if you don't. The only difference is that I will die in agnoy, while I will die quickly.
[/quote]

[size=1]Well, all I can say is that God will judge us on what we know about his commandments and how well we follow them, not how well we follow our own opinions.
[/size]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1085392' date='Oct 6 2006, 01:34 AM']
I still would have someone shoot me man. Instead of me lingiring for 10 mins in agony, kill me now. I'm going to die in either 10 mins, or one second. Give me a second.

My friend also suffers from bi polar, manic depressive, and fiber mialgesia (sp). She is in constant pain and suffering day to day. There are plenty of days that she wants to die, and she has also attempted suicide numerous of times. I don't see it as suicide for I"m going to die anyway ie the WTC. Darned if you, Darned if you don't. The only difference is that I will die in agnoy, while I will die quickly.
[/quote]
You are missing the point, you don't know conclusively that you WILL die in 10 minutes

[Rire & Amour]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1085392' date='Oct 5 2006, 11:34 PM']
I still would have someone shoot me man. Instead of me lingiring for 10 mins in agony, kill me now. I'm going to die in either 10 mins, or one second. Give me a second.

My friend also suffers from bi polar, manic depressive, and fiber mialgesia (sp). She is in constant pain and suffering day to day. There are plenty of days that she wants to die, and she has also attempted suicide numerous of times. I don't see it as suicide for I"m going to die anyway ie the WTC. Darned if you, Darned if you don't. The only difference is that I will die in agnoy, while I will die quickly.
[/quote]


People suffer EVERYDAY whether its physically, emotionally, or spiritually. Since Jesus was going to suffer an agonizing death on the cross for three hours, why didn't one of his disciples or followers put him out of his misery or find a way to kill him so he wouldn't have to suffer so much? You make suffering sound like its a horrible thing. Are you so confident that you are holy enough to make it right to heaven after you die? By suffering and going through trials here on earth, we lessen the time we have to spend in purgatory. I assume that you have a bible, there are some wonderful passages that contradict EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING. Example:


1 Peter 2:19-21 says:


"For whenever anyone bears the pain of unjust suffering because of consciousness of God, that is a grace. But what credit is there if you are patient when beaten for doing wrong? But if you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good, this is a grace before God. FOR TO THIS YOU HAVE BEEN CALLED, BECAUSE CHRIST ALSO SUFFERED FOR YOU, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS FOOTSTEPS."


Here are some other bible versus relating to this topic that I think you should read:

* Mt 10:38
* Rm 8:16-17
* Col 1:24 (one of my favorites!)