Democracy Is A Tool Of Satan

[avemaria40]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1080290' date='Sep 30 2006, 03:58 PM']
Because He chose them to be born into the Royal Family, duh. Kings are obviously the most obvioulsy divinely selected office (after the Popes) becuase humans have not control who they are.
[/quote]

And where does Jesus say that?

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1079443' date='Sep 29 2006, 04:27 PM']
Oh and ha! Your Voting Poll is a form of Democracy, watch out!
[/quote]

true true this

[Resurrexi]

[quote]And where does Jesus say that?[/quote]

For something to be Dogma, Teaching, or Dicipline, Jesus did not have to say it. You might want to check out God the Holy Ghost's word before Christ, though. You'll find several divinely selected kings.

[quote]2+2=5

I don't think the Church has ever made a statement about the above equation, but I hope we can still agree that it's wrong. D.gif[/quote]

It might be in the Old Testament that 2+2=4 and then it would be infallable... or it might be in an encyclical, and then it would be Dicipline.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1080295' date='Sep 30 2006, 04:23 PM']
You have no power to say I'm wrong... only the Church has power to say anyone is wrong. Outside offocial Church Dogma (Faith and Morals), Teaching (Faith, Morals and Dicipline), and any Public Revalation, there is no offocial right and wrong, just personal opinion. So I can't say you're wrong and you can't say I'm wrong.
[/quote]

A couple of points

1. Last I checked you were not acknowledging Church teaching particularly recent, post Vatican II, Church teaching.
2. The Church can be and has been wrong. Witness the long list of wrongs that JP2 called on the Church to repent for during the Great Jubilee.
3. So, where in Church teaching does it say that democracy is evil? Or is that your opinion?
4. There is truth that exists outside of the Church. The math equation is just an example.
5. You asked for opinion and then don't like what you get.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='MilesChristi' post='1080299' date='Sep 30 2006, 03:39 PM']
2+2=5

I don't think the Church has ever made a statement about the above equation, but I hope we can still agree that it's wrong. :
[/quote]

Who knows? Maybe someday in the future it will be most helpful to the mathematical system to adjust the numerical value of the numbers. In this case this statement could become true. Unlike infallible doctrine which can never change no matter what.

[Socrates]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1080277' date='Sep 30 2006, 01:33 PM']
Remember though, any moron can be elected president, but kings are prepared their whole life to reign.
[/quote]
So was [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il"]Kim Jong-Il[/url], Communist dictator of North Korea and world-class looney and heir to his father, Kim Il-sung.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]Who knows? Maybe someday in the future it will be most helpful to the mathematical system to adjust the numerical value of the numbers. In this case this statement could become true. Unlike infallible doctrine which can never change no matter what.[/quote]

exactly

[quote]1. Last I checked you were not acknowledging Church teaching particularly recent, post Vatican II, Church teaching. [/quote]

I aknowledge all offocial Chuch documents after the Second Vatican Council to be valid Ecclesiastical documants and I aknowlegde that they are authorative, I just find the pre-Vatican II docuemnts to be less ambiguous, more to the point, and more supportive of my views. It takes a very knowledgable reader to read Vatican II and post-Vatican II documents, since they must be interpreted in light of the previous Ecclesiastical documents.

[quote]2. The Church can be and has been wrong. Witness the long list of wrongs that JP2 called on the Church to repent for during the Great Jubilee. [/quote]

The Church never has been and can never be wrong. She the the Infallable. She is the Body and Bride of Christ. She is Divine. Regardless of what the personal opinions of a former Roman Pontiff was, I will not say the Ecclesiastical Authorities of past times (BTW, I'm not speaking of the Church Herself, but her members) were wrong about the Crusades, Inquisition or Gallileo Matter, and I find the Church's offocial positions and actions on those matters to be more authoritative than Pope John Paul II's personal opinions and actions.

[quote]3. So, where in Church teaching does it say that democracy is evil? Or is that your opinion?[/quote]

She doesn't condemn democracy in itself, though She does condemn freedom of practicing non-Catholic religion publicly*1, separation of Church and state *2, the notion that any religion other than Catholicism should be the offocial Church of any state *3, abortion *4, Communism*5, Socialism *5 and Americanism *6. It is my personal opinion that democracy is evil and a tool of Satan.

[quote]4. There is truth that exists outside of the Church. The math equation is just an example.[/quote]

That may be true, but the only things we are guaranteed to be 100% correct and True are those Truths revealed by God to His Most Holy Church.

[quote]5. You asked for opinion and then don't like what you get. [/quote]

whatever






*1 77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855. (Condndemned as and error by the Syllabus of Errors)

*2 55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. (Condemned as an error by the Syllabus of Errors)

*3 78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. (Condemned as and errror by the Syllabus of Errors)

*4 14. Therefore We base Our words on the first principles of a human and Christian doctrine of marriage when We are obliged once more to declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun and, above all, all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as lawful means of regulating the number of children. (Humanae Vitae)

*5 IV. SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM, SECRET SOCIETIES, BIBLICAL SOCIETIES, CLERICO-LIBERAL SOCIETIES
Pests of this kind are frequently reprobated in the severest terms in the Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846, Allocution "Quibus quantisque," April 20, 1849, Encyclical "Noscitis et nobiscum," Dec. 8, 1849, Allocution "Singulari quadam," Dec. 9, 1854, Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863. (Syllabus of Errors)

*6 From the foregoing it is manifest, beloved son, that we are not able to give approval to those views which, in their collective sense, are called by some "Americanism." But if by this name are to be understood certain endowments of mind which belong to the American people, just as other characteristics belong to various other nations, and if, moreover, by it is designated your political condition and the laws and customs by which you are governed, there is no reason to take exception to the name. But if this is to be so understood that the doctrines which have been adverted to above are not only indicated, but exalted, there can be no manner of doubt that our venerable brethren, the bishops of America, would be the first to repudiate and condemn it as being most injurious to themselves and to their country. For it would give rise to the suspicion that there are among you some who conceive and would have the Church in America to be different from what it is in the rest of the world. (Testem Benevolentiae Nostra)

[Anomaly]

[quote]The Church never has been and can never be wrong. She the the Infallable. She is the Body and Bride of Christ. She is Divine. Regardless of what the personal opinions of a former Roman Pontiff was, I will not say the Ecclesiastical Authorities of past times (BTW, I'm not speaking of the Church Herself, but her members) were wrong about the Crusades, Inquisition or Gallileo Matter, and I find the Church's offocial positions and actions on those matters to be more authoritative than Pope John Paul II's personal opinions and actions.[/quote]That is just goofy. You pick which popes you want to listen too, throw out common sense, claim your denomination is infallible (it's spelt with two i's, one a), and arrive at some new pickle-a-mamie and outrageous opinion.

[stbernardLT]

I thought the pitch fork was the tool of satan?

Edited October 1, 2006 by stbernardLT

[MIKolbe]

sure, give it to us in the Lame Board..

sheesh... just give us your scraps from the (NON LAME Dinner table)

For the sake of the lame board... i say let's have some tacos, so very tasty and good for you,!

:taco::taco::taco::taco::taco::taco::taco:

[Resurrexi]

[quote]That is just goofy. You pick which popes you want to listen too, throw out common sense, claim your denomination is infallible (it's spelt with two i's, one a), and arrive at some new pickle-a-mamie and outrageous opinion.[/quote]

Christ promised that He would be with His Most Holy Church till the end of time, therefore the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church is infallible. Every Catholic believes the Catholic Church is infallable or he is a heretic.

[quote]8 Q. How are we certain that the Christian Doctrine which we receive from the Holy Catholic Church is really true?
A. We are certain that the doctrine which we receive from the Holy Catholic Church is true, because Jesus Christ, the divine Author of this doctrine, committed it through His Apostles to the Church, which He founded and made the infallible teacher of all men, promising her His divine assistance until the end of time.

31 Q. Are we obliged to believe all the truths the Church teaches us?
A. Yes, we are obliged to believe all the truths the Church teaches us, and Jesus Christ declares that he who does not believe is already condemned.
-
32 Q. Are we also obliged to do all that the Church commands?
A. Yes, we are obliged to do all that the Church commands, for Jesus Christ has said to the Pastors of the Church: "He who hears you, hears Me, and he who despises you, despises Me."

33 Q. Can the Church err in what she proposes for our belief?
A. No, the Church cannot err in what she proposes for our belief, since according to the promise of Jesus Christ she is unfailingly assisted by the Holy Ghost.

34 Q. Is the Catholic Church infallible, then?
A. Yes, the Catholic Church is infallible, and hence those who reject her definitions lose the faith and become heretics.

55 Q. Can the Pope err when teaching the Church?
A. The Pope cannot err, that is, he is infallible, in definitions regarding faith and morals.

56 Q. How is it that the Pope is infallible?
A. The Pope is infallible because of the promise of Jesus Christ, and of the unfailing assistance of the Holy Ghost.

57 Q. When is the Pope infallible?
A. The Pope is infallible when, as Pastor and Teacher of all Christians and in virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by all the Church.

58 Q. What sin would a man commit who should refuse to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope?
A. He who refuses to accept the solemn definitions of the Pope, or who even doubts them, sins against faith; and should he remain obstinate in this unbelief, he would no longer be a Catholic, but a heretic.

59 Q. Why has God granted to the Pope the gift of infallibility?
A. God has granted the Pope the gift of infallibility in order that we all may be sure and certain of the truths which the Church teaches.

60 Q. When was it defined that the Pope is infallible?
A. That the Pope is infallible was defined by the Church in the [First] Vatican Council; and should anyone presume to contradict this definition he would be a heretic and excommunicated.

61 Q. In defining that the Pope is infallible, has the Church put forward a new truth of faith?
A. No, in defining that the Pope is infallible the Church has not put forward a new truth of faith; but to oppose new errors she has simply defined that the infallibility of the Pope, already contained in Sacred Scripture and in Tradition, is a truth revealed by God, and therefore to be believed as a dogma or article of faith.[/quote]

Also, I am a faithful Catholic belonging to the Catholic Religion, not my own made up denomination.

[quote]9 Q. State distinctly what is necessary to be a member of the Church?
A. To be a member of the Church it is necessary to be baptised, to believe and profess the teaching of Jesus Christ, to participate in the same Sacraments, and to acknowledge the Pope and the other lawful pastors of the Church.[/quote]

-I was baptised when I was a baby
-I made the Act of Faith this morning
-I recieved Penance yesterday and Holy Communion today
-I acknowledge the Pope as I type: I firmly believe that His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI is the successor of St. Peter the Apostle in the See of Rome; that Pope Benedict XVI, is the the visible head of the Holy Catholic Church; That Pope Benedict XVI is the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth; and that Pope Benedict XVI is infallible when, as Pastor and Teacher of all Christians and in virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by all the Church. Amen.

Edited October 1, 2006 by StThomasMore

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Democracy is not the best form of government in all cases, and while it is not a tool of Satan inherently it CAN be a tool of Satan.

[avemaria40]

It would also do well to remember that Jesus said His kingdom was not of this world. Clearly, Our Lord wasn't interested in State politics when He spread His message. That's why I don't think a theocratic monarchy is necessary. Yes, there were kings who were sent by God to be kings in the OT and there were also many saints who were royalty. However, just because there were kings in the Bible doesn't mean there should be kings now. Slaves were mentioned in the Bible, does that mean people should be able to own slaves?

Does that mean I support proabortion politicians (because I believe in a free country)? Absolutely not! I support politicians who want what's best for our country, who work to make sure all human beings are treated with dignity (including the unborn, the sick, the prisoners, etc.) I also support those who will give us better schools, a cleaner enviornment and better health care, as well as those who would make sure we stayed a free nation. I am a very political person in that respect and I do care about the well being of America. I also care about justice and the worth of each human being. I like being able to have a say in how this country is run, after all this is the country I'm living in, the country in which, God willing, I will raise a family in.

Besides, in the countries that do have monarchies, the monarchs are either mere symbols of unity and have no real power (England), or they are corrupt and greedy (Saudi Arabia).

[Laudate_Dominum]

I consider democracy to be primitive and crude, but it is hardly intrinsically evil. It might be cumbersome and unintelligent, but it is morally neutral, IMHO anyway.

Thus, like most things, it is potentially a tool of satan, but is not necessarily so.

[zunshynn]

I don't "hate" it, but I do have serious issues with democracy... people hold it up on a pedestal when it has serious flaws. Let the majority decide! Woohoo, sounds great, until you have a majority of morons taking your country downhill, with everyone else.

Do I think it's a tool of the devil? Not inherently, but certainly I think the devil can use it to accomplish evil, just like he can use any form of government to accomplish evil.