Counter-Reformer Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1079715' date='Sep 29 2006, 09:19 PM'] [b] 87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me", the faithful [b]receive with docility [/b]the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.[/b] The apostles taught differently, "follow me as I follow Christ" Christianity is not supposed to be a religion of blind obedience. but obeying God rather then men. [/quote] Funny you skip the parts about Christ giving the Apoostles the ability to bind and to loose, and St. Paul talks about leadership is key in the Church. He even instructs not to ordain those hastily. Infact the first thing St. Paul did was get ordained rather than start preaching. Let's not forget that St. Peter had to teach the Ethiopian eunich what Isaiah was really saying and Peter reaffirms this that prophecy is not a matter of personal interpretation and that it is reserved to the Church. Edited September 30, 2006 by Counter-Reformer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Poor budge. She seems like such an unhappy miserable person. If you are so close to Christ then why do you despair so much? All you can do is point out people's so called "errors". You see no good in anything but your own opinions and beliefs. You attack the early Church Fathers because the Early Church fathers prove the Church is correct. It's typical protestant jargin. Instead of seeing things as "in Christ and one with Christ" you seperate everything from him. We dont put anyone or anything on the same level as Christ. We do believe Christ works through people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1079715' date='Sep 29 2006, 08:19 PM'] David Koresh, made the same mistake, making himself the same ultimate authority with no accountability. [/quote] congrats budge, you, by your own comments, are not an authoritative teacher with any accountability. By your own arguments, there is not a single reason why we should believe you any more than David Koresh. ahh the beauty of protestantism, you can make up whatever you want, piece together some Bible verses, and then claim to be some authority and tell everyone else they're wrong. ..then build a mega church and make millions Edited September 30, 2006 by rkwright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1079404' date='Sep 29 2006, 04:05 PM'] Nope... Matthew 23:10, Jesus says "Nec vocemini magistri: quia magister vester unus est, Christus." (Jerome's Vulgate) which means [size=4]"Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ." [/size](Catholic Douay-Rheims) So what does the Catholic church do? It reads Jesus' statement that Christians are not to call anyone MAGISTER and.....creates a group of men they call the MAGISTERIUM! [/quote] Magister is Latin for teacher. The Magisterium is teaching the life of Jesus Christ to others. Is even teaching others about Christ blasphemy in Budge's Bible? True, Christ is the master teacher. He and no other can take the title and role from Him. Neither does the Church. All of her teachings come from Christ. [quote]Christianity is not supposed to be a religion of blind obedience. but [b]obeying God rather then men[/b].[/quote] Which is why I'm Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jswranch Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1079111' date='Sep 29 2006, 11:09 AM'] The apostles warned of EARLY DECEIVERS. I believe the majority of Rome's EARLY CHURCH FATHERS, fit the bill. Origen most definitely. .... [/quote] I suppose you know Origen was not a church father. He is also never refered to as 'St. Origen'. Which Early Chruch Fathers do you refer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 I just read through this thread and my goodness Budge, that is one of the WEAKEST arguments I have EVER read, for disproving the authority and truthfulness of the Church Fathers. Seriously, my 5 year old nephew who can't even pronounce Chrysostom, can do better than what you have put on the board. Give it an honest shot and perhaps we can make a go of it.....but to throw out only what you have thrown out, that is pathetic. I'll be waiting patiently. I have to be, since you apparently don't like to rebut my positions. Go Budgy, It's your Birthday, Go Budgy, beat the Fathers.....nah, that chant isn't even worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='Cam42' post='1080130' date='Sep 30 2006, 09:45 AM']Go Budgy, It's your Birthday, Go Budgy, beat the Fathers.....nah, that chant isn't even worth it. [/quote] Thanks for putting that in my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 You're so welcome..... Go Mommy, it's your birthday, Go Mommy, get your son up...... Geico ain't got nothin' on me, sister.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1079715' date='Sep 29 2006, 07:19 PM']Christianity is not supposed to be a religion of blind obedience. but obeying God rather then men. [/quote] And who is to be the arbiter of what God wants? You? David Koresh? How I am supposed to know the difference? Oh, yeah, didn't Jesus say something about someone being a rock, and upon that rock He would build his Church? By your argument, any organization is a cult because, well, it's an organization. I guess we should all just be churches unto ourselves. But then, an individual can't be a church, can he / she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1079111' date='Sep 29 2006, 01:09 PM']The apostles warned of EARLY DECEIVERS. I believe the majority of Rome's EARLY CHURCH FATHERS, fit the bill.[/quote]Ironically, St. Paul was [i]thankful[/i] that the early Roman Church had a faith that was "heralded throughout the world" ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm#v8"]Rom 1:8[/url]). Who to believe: Budge or St. Paul? Hmmm... As for [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen#Origen.27s_influence_on_the_later_Church"]Origen[/url], he is a poor example to cite because the Catholic Church does not consider him a Church Father. On the other hand, I believe that we Christians owe something to him for some of his teachings (e.g. advancing our understanding of the nature of the Trinity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 [quote name='jswranch' post='1080113' date='Sep 30 2006, 07:47 AM'] I suppose you know Origen was not a church father. He is also never refered to as 'St. Origen'. Which Early Chruch Fathers do you refer? [/quote] I predict that Budge will either not address this in future posts or just not post here again. C'mon Budge, prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Budge, I don't think you replied to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 Oh I knew Origen wasnt seen as "Orthodox" though he seems pretty in vogue now. Add Augustine, Tertuillian, Constantines boot-licker Eusebius, Pope Gregory the Great, Ignatius, Iraneus, Jerome...and many more. By the way I went to go look up an official list of Catholic ECFs, and ORIGEN is on THIS LIST. [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/"]ORIGEN IS ON THE OFFICIAL LIST[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 He didn't get everything wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now