Where Interfaithism Has Led You

[Budge]

Honestly who can blame them?

In the church that is so busy promoting the Seeds of the Word in false religions, with no clear boundaries between paganism and Catholicism, really who can blame them.

I personally know two Catholics who consider themselves WICCAN and CATHOLIC.

as well as a Buddhist-Catholic.

[quote] [b] YOUNG Catholics are more confused about religion than other Christian groups their age.[/b]

Cardinal George Pell will warn the National Catholic Education Commission's annual conference today [size=2]that young members of the church seem to regard life as a "smorgasbord of options from which they choose items that best suit their passing fancies".[/size]

(AS IVE SAID ON HERE BEFORE WHEN YOU TEACH PEOPLE ALL RELIGIONS CAN LEAD TO HEAVEN< THERE ARE TRUTHS IN ALL RELIGIONS WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?}



[b]They are in danger of becoming muddled about their faith[/b], he will warn the Sydney conference. And although inadequacies of family life and religious education are factors, they are not the only ones.

{OF COURSE WITH NO BOUNDARIES THEY ARE COMPLETELY MUDDLED}

"Too many young Catholics have been led by the pressures of contemporary propaganda ... so their religious confusion is worse than that of all other young Australians," he says.

Cardinal Pell cautions that churches may be experiencing an acceleration in Christian "slippage, with Catholics slipping faster, although they have bigger numbers on the slope".

Catholic education is experiencing a "complex and turbulent process of change" with "only limited capacity to transmit our tradition and preserve our identity", he says, citing the findings of the recent Spirit of Generation Y survey produced by the Australian Catholic University, Monash University and the Christian Research Association. [b]He was surprised to find a mere 10 per cent of Catholics between the ages of 13 and 29 believed "only one religion is true". [/b]This compared with a survey average of 11 per cent, and 34 per cent among "other Christians". For Anglicans, the figure was 14 per cent.

"The pressures on young Catholics beyond tolerance and ecumenism and towards muddle are evident here, channelled sometimes through the ill-effects of courses in comparative religion," says Cardinal Pell, also Archbishop of Sydney.

Worse than the low numbers identifying Catholicism as the one true faith, and[u][b] "particularly disturbing" for Catholic educators, is that 75 per cent of young Catholics believe it is acceptable to "pick and choose beliefs"[/b].[/u] [/quote]

Who can blame them?

[url="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20488666-2702,00.html"]LINK[/url]

Edited September 28, 2006 by Budge

[Guest T-Bone]

So the Church is bad because it demands that people follow all the tennents of its teachings in one thread, yet in this one, it's bad beacuse there are members that don't follow all of its teachings?

Please explain your logic.

[kenrockthefirst]

Look, another bomb.

Is there a question to debate here, Budge, or is it you just doing your usual?

Let me suggest this: start a "debate" thusly: "proposition: Catholicism is the tool of the Devil," and take it from there. Such a thread could accommodate anything you care to post.

[Budge]

Its teachings are a muddled mess.

I dont think teenagers are going to GET the muddled mess or endless 6 paragraph explanations it takes you folks to explain the difference between syncretism and "interreligious dialogue"

Heck even a teen googling for Phatmass, sees that unity of all religions line.

They hear the Popes preach about their great respect for Islam, every other religion out there, and how it is not PC to 'diss" other religions.

So you are surprised at this confusion?

When theres no clear boundaries between Catholicism and paganism this is what you get.

I know several young people and older now, who consider themselves what I call Hybrid-Catholic religions..

2 Catholic-Wiccans, 1 Catholic-Buddhist...

these things are happening whether you like it or not and there is a reason for it.



[quote]
Let me suggest this: start a "debate" thusly: "proposition: Catholicism is the tool of the Devil," and take it from there. Such a thread could accommodate anything you care to post.[/quote]

Head in sand denial isnt going to do anything.

When all the kiddies are taught that any religion can get you to heaven and watch the Popes paling around with the Dalai Lama, what do you expect?

It will be your kids, who no longer go to church, who become UU, or dump it all together, because after all if being good gets you to heaven why bother with waking up on Sunday morning?

[thessalonian]

The only reason there is 6 pages of explanations on things is because of the hardness of your heart. People have patiently tried to explain things to you and it's reject, reject, reject, deny, deny, deny. For those who believe no explanation is needed. For those refuse to believe, no explanation is enough.

Confussion in the young who are open is quite possible to rectify. Your confusion is a much more difficult problem. We'll work on our young peoople.

[Budge]

[quote]The only reason there is 6 pages of explanations on things is because of the hardness of your heart. People have patiently tried to explain things to you and it's reject, reject, reject, deny, deny, deny. For those who believe no explanation is needed. For those refuse to believe, no explanation is enough.[/quote]

Actually I believe those who reject the gospel for syncretism and the antichrist gospel of interfaithism are thsoe who have hardened their hearts. It takes you 6 paragraphs because you have to make endless excuses for what is essentially a denial of the Christian gospel in embracing false religions and putting your church in the center rather then Jesus Christ.

Your OWN KIDS, arent getting it. Im a Christian that rejects the Catholic church, but if your own kids, who have been raised in your own faith, and who do not reject the Catholic church dont get it, who is? Theres a reason they are confused. There are no boundaries when it comes to universalism and the PC tolerance gospel.

Jesus make the gospel simple enough for illiterate fishermen to get it.

Catholicism is a muddled mess and as it becomes mroe universalistic will only become more so.

[Guest T-Bone]

You still have not explained the logic of your self contradiciton.

[thessalonian]

Budge your just shooting from the hip. The Catholic teaching on other religions is in fact quite clear, except to you and your hard heart. The kids are growing in their understanding and have an excuse for their ignorance. You do not.

[Aloysius]

the Church teaches and holds dogmatically that outside of the Church there is no salvation. these Catholics need to be told that... and you need to be told that: YOU ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH. There is no salvation there, because the Church is the Body of Christ (cf St. Paul) and the bishops are the apostles; to reject them is to reject Christ.

You have invented your own Christ. He is your imaginary friend, it appears, who gives you comfort about all the big bad new world order folks that are all out to get you. You do not seem to hold yourself accountable to anyone or anything than your own interior self (a product of modernism) and in effect, your "Jesus" follows along your own interior self.

At least in our Church, these folks get confused and Cardinals and Bishops get concerned. These folks start inventing a Christ for themselves and the Church tries to show them the Christ who is outside of themselves.

Your Christ is inside of yourself, that much is clear, becuase your Christ agrees with all of your political opinions, all of your moral opinions, all of your opinions about scripture. You have made yourself into a Christ and lost all vision of the real Christ who can only be found in the real communion of the real Church which is His real body.

I can cite tons of examples of folks who have followed your same line of teaching, your same brand of religion, who are just as confused and just as lost, mixing religions and mixing faiths and believing that Jesus is on board with the whole thing. Because their Christ is a Christ whom they have invented for their own self.

Of course, you will dissassioate yourSELF from them, because yourSELF is not accountable to anything outside of yourSELF, because within yourSELF you have found a Christ... it is typical modernist wattered down Christianity.

[Budge]

[quote]the Church teaches and holds dogmatically that outside of the Church there is no salvation. these Catholics need to be told that... and you need to be told that: YOU ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH. There is no salvation there, because the Church is the Body of Christ (cf St. Paul) and the bishops are the apostles; to reject them is to reject Christ.[/quote]

So belief in Christ is OPTIONAL?

As Ive said before your church has made itself the center of salvation instead of Jesus Christ.

[quote]
You have invented your own Christ. He is your imaginary friend, it appears, who gives you comfort about all the big bad new world order folks that are all out to get you. You do not seem to hold yourself accountable to anyone or anything than your own interior self (a product of modernism) and in effect, your "Jesus" follows along your own interior self.[/quote]

Wow, my atheist friend {from college} always says God is my imaginary friend, why do you sound just like her?

I am accountable to God, and His Word, in fact there have been many times as every other Christian will attest that one must follow His Word over ones own emotions or deceitful heart.

You have an INTERIOR SELF as well choosing to follow the men of Rome or not.

[quote]
Your Christ is inside of yourself, that much is clear, becuase your Christ agrees with all of your political opinions, all of your moral opinions, all of your opinions about scripture. You have made yourself into a Christ and lost all vision of the real Christ who can only be found in the real communion of the real Church which is His real body.[/quote]

No I follow Gods Word, which warns of the counterfeit church of the last days, which your church and its daughters fulfill all prophecies related to.

You seem to think that it is impossible for a Christian to submit all their morals and politics to Christ. Why is that? I think people like others to do their thinking for them rather then going to God directly and alllowing Him to do the leading. Also I have never claimed for myself the perfection of God, but your leaders do.

I am not the modernist, I believe Jesus Christ is the only way and that a person is lost without Him.

Your church is full of modernism, to the point it is teaching that gods of false religions equal God.

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078097' date='Sep 28 2006, 03:33 PM']
So belief in Christ is OPTIONAL?

As Ive said before your church has made itself the center of salvation instead of Jesus Christ.[/quote]

No, that's not what he said. Belief in Christ is NOT optional. Rather, to truly and fully believe in Christ, we must be part of His Church. The two are inseparable. If we say we believe in Christ but reject His Church, then we're telling God that we want to serve Him, not on His terms, but on our own terms. Shouldn't God be the one to decide whose terms we serve Him on?

[quote]Wow, my atheist friend {from college} always says God is my imaginary friend, why do you sound just like her?

I am accountable to God, and His Word, in fact there have been many times as every other Christian will attest that one must follow His Word over ones own emotions or deceitful heart. [/quote]

We follow God's word. You, on the other had, follow only PART of God's word plus your personal opinions which you wrongly present as facts. You don't have the full Bible, to start with (the full Bible contains the deuteroncanonical books). And you also reject the Church's Sacred Tradition (which, I'm sure we've told you before, does NOT comprise the "traditions of men" that Christ denounced).

[quote]You have an INTERIOR SELF as well choosing to follow the men of Rome or not.
No I follow Gods Word, which warns of the counterfeit church of the last days, which your church and its daughters fulfill all prophecies related to. [/quote]

If you want to find the counterfeit church in the Catholic Church, you're barking up the wrong tree. Again, you're not following God's word but rather your own biases, which becomes more and more clear the more you ignore what we say and continue to spout the same old nonsense. You just stick your fingers in your ears and go, "Lalalalalalalalalalalala . . . ."

[quote]You seem to think that it is impossible for a Christian to submit all their morals and politics to Christ. Why is that? I think people like others to do their thinking for them rather then going to God directly and alllowing Him to do the leading. Also I have never claimed for myself the perfection of God, but your leaders do. [/quote]

By listening to and obeying the Magisterium, we're not making people to our thinking for us. Rather, we do so because we CAN and DO think for ourselves, and our minds tell us it makes good sense to listen to and obey the Magisterium!

And how many times do we have to tell you that the bishops and whatnot are NOT morally impeccable?! That doesn't mean we can disobey those who sin, though. Remember what Jesus said? He told the people to obey what the Pharisees said but not to FOLLOW THEIR EXAMPLE. So we obey sinful prelates but don't follow their example. Of course, we're not to obey orders to commit sin or orders that go against what the pope orders the whole Church to do. However, for anyone who claims that a given order is sinful, the burden of proof is on the person making that claim, and all benefit of the doubt goes to the person making the order.

[quote]I am not the modernist, I believe Jesus Christ is the only way and that a person is lost without Him.[/quote]

Did any of us ever disagree with that statement? Does the Church disagree with that statement? No to both statements.

[quote]Your church is full of modernism, to the point it is teaching that gods of false religions equal God.[/quote]

How many times do we have to tell you that just because individual members of the clergy or laity might be modernist, it DOES NOT mean that the Church has been teaching modernism?!

[thessalonian]

[quote]So belief in Christ is OPTIONAL?

As Ive said before your church has made itself the center of salvation instead of Jesus Christ.[/quote]

False dichotomy disease is my diagnosis. A course on logic would be a good suggestion for you. The Church is the body of Christ. The Church is the pillar and support of the truth. There is no instead of Christ.

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1077988' date='Sep 28 2006, 01:04 PM']


I know several young people and older now, who consider themselves what I call Hybrid-Catholic religions..

2 Catholic-Wiccans, 1 Catholic-Buddhist...


[/quote]
Hey, let's not get all "Dee dee dee" up in here(you'll understand this if you watch Carlos Mencia). I used to be a Baptist-Pagan. It's called "Christo-Paganism." It's an attempt to blend Christianity and Paganism. Tends not to work out to well. And it happens with Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Baptists(although I find it to be more frequent among Catholics, Methodists, and Anglicans). There is a blending of religions going on in many Christian denominations.

And let's be clear here. I grew up in an Independent Baptist family. My dad was a youth pastor. I've been IFB most of my life. In the IFB circles I've grown up in, the IFB churches I've visited, etc, let's be perfectly honest, and say that most IFB's don't know anything about theology. You know what they know about? Standards. And that's about it. And before anybody jumps on me for saying anything like that, technically I'm still a member of an IFB church, so I can make that observation. I've been to IFB colleges. I've been in IFB churches. I know the IFB movement like the back of my hand.



Budge, as a fellow Baptist, I'd implore you to switch tactics here. You're arguing non-issues. Just because some Catholics know their faith about as well as a second grader knows Algebra, this isn't the point. Many IFB's are like that. So are many Presbyterians, or Methodists, or what have you. There are fluff-bunnies in every denomination and religion. It does you no good to argue on this point. Nor on half the points you argue on here. Try arguing something like, oh, I dunno...Doctrine maybe? It will serve you better, and will be more reflective upon Christ if you argue in charity and on valid points.

In Christ,
Will

[Aloysius]

the point is that Jesus Christ never said that individuals could/should join to Him as their own islands.. He prayed that His followers might be one. And that's what they did. Everyone always came to know Him and to know God through the family of God and only joined into communion to Him through communion with His family, His Church.

you have turned Him into a pagan god, and we all know what scripture says pagan gods are. your belief in Him as the one who agrees with your politics and personal beliefs blasphemes the One True God. your belief in Him as one who exists apart from union with His Church is repugnant. A demon convinced Mohammad that he was the angel gabriel, and some demon has convinced you that he is Jesus Christ Himself.

I think your athiest friend might have some insight there. assuredly, not everyone who believes in God has formed an imaginary friend, but it seems you have. He is the confirmer of your conspiracy theories, the agreement to all your politics, the one who makes sure you will never have to undergo any scrutiny from anyone with an education because you can hide behind any foolishness as long as you are convinced it is from him... he is at best an imaginary friend and at worst a demon.

Tell me, as convinced as you are that a conterfeit church [i]will rise up[/i] in [i]the end times[/i]... when did the Catholic Church rise up? even at the worst anti-Catholic protestant estimations it's the 6th century. tell me, when did non-denominational 'christianity' rise up? within the 20th century. if you are expecting the end of the world to come with a conterfeit church rising up at the end, i'd look towards the conterfeit church which has just recently risen up and started gaining strength... taking down even the traditional protestant denominations and weakening christendom.

Jesus did not go appear to every individual christian after His ressurection. Jesus did not go individually talk to every single person to teach them. He taught 12 Apostles, a handful of disciples, appeared to 500 people.. then sent them out to join in a communion with others so that those others could meet Him through them; accept Him through them; or reject Him through them. He desires that everyone get to know Him through a physical and verifiable outside-of-themself medium: a Church. the point of the incarnation is that God can be known through man, the point of His Apostles was that he could be known through a communion of other men; and if you do not join and submit to such a communion you become a one man deity-inventing machine.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1077988' date='Sep 28 2006, 12:04 PM']
Head in sand denial isnt going to do anything.

When all the kiddies are taught that any religion can get you to heaven and watch the Popes paling around with the Dalai Lama, what do you expect?

It will be your kids, who no longer go to church, who become UU, or dump it all together, because after all if being good gets you to heaven why bother with waking up on Sunday morning?
[/quote]

The church teaches that outside of the church, there is no salvation. Period. Where is the confusion, except on your part?