For Budge

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, I think that you could use some understanding of exactly what the Catholic Church teaches with regard to evangelization, since you seem to think that Catholicism is against evangelization.

Please read these and get back to me:

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6EVAN.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6EVAN.HTM[/url]

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_16101979_catechesi-tradendae_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_pau...adendae_en.html[/url]

[Budge]

They make evangelization into something even complicated.

The problem in those documents is their organization comes first instead of Jesus Christ.

Catechism, religion classes for months, and wanting everyone to submit to the Pope is not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Real Evangelization is getting yourself out there in the world and telling people you are lost without Jesus Christ, we were all sinners in need of a Saviour. The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and teaching people what Jesus has done for them.

This is to be done via conviction about their sin, repentance and realizing the love Jesus Christ had for them to die on the cross.

Evangelization is not done via interfaith rap sessions, telling people you have to be a member of a church--the Mormons do that as well, or submit to the Pope. It is not wishy-washy your religion will take you to heaven as long as you are 'good' but warning people about hell and having the conviction knowing that souls are in peril without Jesus Christ.

It is making Jesus Christ the absolute center of your life, giving yourself over to Him, knowing His is the Only way and putting TOTAL TRUST in HIM.

[img]http://www.gospeltracts.com/GospelTractsView/GospelTracts/images/tract320.gif[/img]

[quote]PAID IN FULL
tract320.gif (14436 bytes)DID YOU KNOW? You are in debt because of your sin?

ROMANS 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

ROMANS 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

DO YOU REALIZE? What the cost of YOUR sin debt will bring In eternity?

ROMANS 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death;"

REVELATION 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

REVELATION 14:11a "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for "ever and ever:"

HAVE YOU HEARD? Your sin debt has been "PAID IN FULL."

MATTHEW 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

WILL YOU BELIEVE? THE BIBLE, the record of what God has done for you.

I TIMOTHY 1:15a "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;"

I JOHN 5:11 "And this is the record, that God bath to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

ROMANS 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

WILL YOU TRUST? The eternity of your soul completely TO JESUS CHRIST.

JOHN 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

ACTS 13:39 "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

ACTS 16:31b "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved:"

REMEMBER: You must trust Jesus AND NOTHING ELSE.

ROMANS 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

JOHN 6:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he bath sent."

ROMANS 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

HAVE YOU CLAIMED THE
"PAID IN FULL"
RECEIPT FOR YOUR SIN DEBT?

*

I CHOOSE TO TRUST JESUS CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED PAYMENT FOR MY SIN DEBT.

ACT’S 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.’’

ROMANS 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

ROMANS 10:13 ‘‘For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

*

I CHOOSE TO REJECT THE PAYMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND TRUST MY PAYMENT.

HEBREWS 2: 3a "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;"

II THESSALONIANS 1:8 & 9 "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"[/quote]

[Groo the Wanderer]

Geeze..here we go with the cut-paste again....

Question fer yoo: where in the Bible does it say that passing out tracts is evangelization?

Nuther question fer yoo: why do you assume if something is not in the Bible, it is not valid or did not happen?

example: you can read through the entire Passion narrative (in all the gospels) in a matter of minutes. Maybe over an hour, if you read slowly. Yet the incidents described take 15-18 hours to progress. Why the disconnect? Did God transmagically expand Christ's suffering from an hour to 15 for some reason? Or, where there other things, events, happenings, gestures, words, etc that are not recorded in the Bible? Which shoulder did Christ carry His cross on? If you say left, I call you a heretic, cause the Bible doesn't say so! If you say right, I still call you a heretic, cause the Bible doesn't say so! At least by yer standards...

Of course I guess you forget the last couple of verses of John's Gospel....(not gonna cut/paste - look it up)

[Budge]

[quote]Nuther question fer yoo: why do you assume if something is not in the Bible, it is not valid or did not happen? [/quote]

Because I believe in Gods Word, I dont go seeking after the worlds philosophy or false religions for truth.

HESE are today's apostles? I sincerely do not think so.

From an old thread I did, where I saw even your bishops supporting reading of the Koran.

www.nccbuscc.org/seia/borelli.htm

[quote]READ THE KORAN WITH THE USCCB! INTERPRET THE KORAN USING THE BIBLE AND VICE VERSA! You wont believe this!

Quote:One particular area of theological study is joint study of the Bible and the Qur’?n.[b] We need to read our scriptures together and, let me suggest, we need to bring our scholars together for sessions of joint exegesis. By interpreting our scriptures together, we gain valuable insight not only into the message of the scriptures but how the scriptures themselves have been lived by the generations[/b]. Common themes will be found, and differences in teachings and beliefs will be noted. We will also learn from one another how we approach the diversity of texts in Scripture and how Scripture relates to that body of literature we call, for want of a better term, Tradition. We can open for one another classical methods of interpretation and commentary on Scripture and modern methods too. The benefits could be enormous, not only for mutual understanding but also for broadening our own views and growing in our respect for the ways that God continues to work among all of us.[/quote]

[kujo]

So, am I to believe that there is only one way to evangelize? I am only allowed to throw out verses from the Bible, hoping that the person comes to accept Christ through them? What if they don't accept scripture? What if they have had a bad experiences with the televangelists, causing them to shun those who would behave in a similar manner?

What I am saying is that there is more than tackle evangelization. First and foremost, we should keep a mindset of love and recognition of where the person we are speaking with is coming from. I find that sometimes Christians and Catholics come off as haughty, condescending no-it-alls when it comes to evangelizing. We should avoid being "like them" and approach our Great Commission with a sense of humility and love and zeal.

[Budge]

Sure there are different ways to evangelize, Ive discussed everything from Bible Prophecy with unbelievers to ones facing illness and other problems in a Biblical context.

The difference is you have to preach the gospel and tell the truth that Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.

You dont play the lets learn about each other religions game, that does not convict anyone of their need for Christ.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076620' date='Sep 27 2006, 01:12 PM']
Sure there are different ways to evangelize, Ive discussed everything from Bible Prophecy with unbelievers to ones facing illness and other problems in a Biblical context.

The difference is you have to preach the gospel and tell the truth that Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation.

You dont play the lets learn about each other religions game, that does not convict anyone of their need for Christ.
[/quote]
Once again, whose to say that doing a bilateral-study of the separate religions and pointing out their similarities doesn't open up the door to more dialogue and, thus, more opportunity to spread the Truth of Christ? It's basic diplomacy...you don't walk into a room, call everyone a moron and expect them to be receptive to your opinions; rather, you approach the situation maturely, firmly and humbly.

I don't think we disagree with you much on this, Budge. We all agree that believing that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior is absolutely necessary for salvation. I think we're just playing semantics here.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Because I believe in Gods Word, I dont go seeking after the worlds philosophy or false religions for truth.[/quote]

We also believe in God's Word. But we don't treat it as a shopping list. A shopping list requires no interpretation, no intellectual or emotional engagement - it's all written out for you to see. But as Groo pointed out, the Bible can't be treated in that way. You have conveniently ignored this paragraph:

[quote]example: you can read through the entire Passion narrative (in all the gospels) in a matter of minutes. Maybe over an hour, if you read slowly. Yet the incidents described take 15-18 hours to progress. Why the disconnect? Did God transmagically expand Christ's suffering from an hour to 15 for some reason? Or, where there other things, events, happenings, gestures, words, etc that are not recorded in the Bible? Which shoulder did Christ carry His cross on? If you say left, I call you a heretic, cause the Bible doesn't say so! If you say right, I still call you a heretic, cause the Bible doesn't say so! At least by yer standards...[/quote]

As for what you say about catechesis overcomplicating things, I think Jesus would disagree. He himself was a teacher - you can often find Him holding forth in the temple courts in the Scriptures. Intensive religious education is strongly rooted within the Jewish tradition. The ancient Jews amassed vast commentaries on the Old Testament and studied all the different aspects of their faith, ranging from applied ethics to Torah cantillation. Jesus was born into a tradition of teaching and learning, a tradition that the Church has tried to continue. The whole fundamentalist "forget doctrine and get a personal relationship with JESUS!" salespitch falls down flat when you realise that uneducated Christians falter when challenged by non-believers, are plagued by doubts that could easily be assuaged if they knew a bit more about theology and Biblical exegesis, and - more tragically still - never fully understand the beauty and richness of their faith tradition. Learning and study are important. They don't detract from a relationship with Christ - they enhance it.

And yes, that includes learning about other religions. I've read the Qur'an, in translation and in the original language. The Islamic education I got in Saudi Arabia has actually increased my understanding of and love for my own faith. It hasn't undermined it in the slightest. You talk about Islam an awful lot, but I am intrigued to know how you get your information if dialogue with Muslims is such a big taboo for you.

Church tradition and teaching form a giant telescope that is trained on the Lord, so we can behold Him more clearly. Your problem is that you just look at the telescope, at this peculiar clumsy object that's pointing at the stars. You wonder why Catholics obsess over this contraption instead of just looking up to the sky and seeing the splendour that you see.

But you never put your eye to the telescope's eyepiece.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076588' date='Sep 27 2006, 12:31 PM']
They make evangelization into something even complicated.
[/quote]
If you would only read the documents, I'm certain you would be struck by their beauty and simplicity.

As for the long catechetical sessions and the thick manuals on catechesis...how do you explain the forty years in the desert or the Bible?

[Budge]

[quote]So, am I to believe that there is only one way to evangelize? I am only allowed to throw out verses from the Bible, hoping that the person comes to accept Christ through them? What if they don't accept scripture?[/quote]
[quote]

As for the long catechetical sessions and the thick manuals on catechesis..[/quote]
[b]
Ro 10:17
So then, faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.[/b]


So you know better then God? Amazing I am sure He will accept your ways as Superior....

[Laudate_Dominum]

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076906' date='Sep 27 2006, 06:27 PM']
[b]
Ro 10:17
So then, faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.[/b]
So you know better then God? Amazing I am sure He will accept your ways as Superior....


[/quote]

"Preach the Gospel at all times; use words when necessary."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076906' date='Sep 27 2006, 06:27 PM']
[b]
Ro 10:17
So then, faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.[/b]
So you know better then God? Amazing I am sure He will accept your ways as Superior....


[/quote]
Please explain how that verse refutes my point.

Edited September 28, 2006 by Raphael

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076906' date='Sep 27 2006, 06:27 PM']
[b]
Ro 10:17
So then, faith commeth by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.[/b]
So you know better then God? Amazing I am sure He will accept your ways as Superior....


[/quote]
St James
22Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.