I Came Out Of What You Are Going Into!

[Budge]

[quote]
But the truth is that you know that such a disagreement between two people on this board does not "prove" anything of the sort. But you level the charge anyway.[/quote]

Ok you tell me whether or not the document is ex-cathedra and provide proof.

The fact of the matter is except for a few Marian promotions where they stated clearly and directly... this is ex-cathedra--Immaculate Conception, none of you really know for sure.

Was Vatican II ex cathedra?

Was Dominus Iesus ex cathedra?

{Do any of you really know for sure?}

[SJP]

So you admit that your charge was not an honest one!

Why did you post it Budge?

You made the charge, not me. I believe the onus is therefore upon you.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076877' date='Sep 27 2006, 05:10 PM']
Is this what you learned at your one world religion WCC Commie meetings, to call anyone who disagrees with you a VIRUS or a CANCER? I guess the TOLERANCE antichrist gospel shows its true heart which is pure evil.

[/quote]

How many times do i need to tell you..

I came out of what you are IN...

evangelical baptist education... cant play the naive catholic card on me


oh, the augustine trinity is a valid understanding for that symbol also. need me to find sources for you?

Edited September 27, 2006 by Revprodeji

[Budge]

[quote]
I came out of what you are IN... rolleyes.gif

evangelical baptist education...wink.gif cant play the naive catholic card on me[/quote]

Just because a kid is brought up in a Christian home, doesnt mean they ever become truly born again, and make the faith their own.

Considering so many churches that have fallen away, including Baptist and others, following the siren calls of everything from ecumenicalism to Rick Warrens--self esteem gospel, just because you were raised "evangelical" proves nothing.

What was the name of your particular denomination?

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1076962' date='Sep 27 2006, 06:33 PM']
How many times do i need to tell you..

I came out of what you are IN...

evangelical baptist education... cant play the naive catholic card on me
oh, the augustine trinity is a valid understanding for that symbol also. need me to find sources for you?
[/quote]

The changing of the meaning of the symbol is a rewriting of history. It was in use long before Augustine. Granted, it can be used to symbolize that(the trinity), but it still stems from pagan roots. As I said, namely those of the Celtic and Norse pagan religions. Do you want me to find those sources for you?

As to the "fundy" thing, careful there. Now you're walking on the fighting side of me. Labeling me as a cancer? a virus? Because, yes, that's what I am. I'm a Fundamentalist. A Baptist. Just because Budge is being a bit ornery, is no reason to start acting like them. Your words hit a much wider audience than you intended dear sir(or ma'am, as the case may be). All "fundies" are not as stupid, arrogant, or hateful as you are attempting to portray them to be.

[thessalonian]

[quote]Was Vatican II ex cathedra?[/quote]

Surely your not this dumb.
Quite apparently you don't know what you are talking about since this is a council and not a papal statement. DI is not EC. That you cannot sort it out and someone else cannot is not of concern to me. It is authoritative.

Edited September 27, 2006 by thessalonian

[Budge]

Actually Im waiting for some Catholics to come on here and tell you Vatican 2 was ex cathedra.

Vatican 2 is seen as so much of a failure now Im sure theyve rescinded that ex cathedra status.



In fact all over I see Catholics writing Vatican 2 is not ex cathedra.

But at the time they were discussing faith and morals were they not?

[quote]891 "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims [b]by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals[/b]. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council. When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed," and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith." This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.[/quote]
[quote]

I guess the phrase definitive act, can be the weasle phrase to avoid the painted in the corner syndrome.

As to the "fundy" thing, careful there. Now you're walking on the fighting side of me. Labeling me as a cancer? a virus? Because, yes, that's what I am. I'm a Fundamentalist. A Baptist. Just because Budge is being a bit ornery, is no reason to start acting like them. Your words hit a much wider audience than you intended dear sir(or ma'am, as the case may be). All "fundies" are not as stupid, arrogant, or hateful as you are attempting to portray them to be.
[/quote]

Hey do me a favor and google the word "sects" and "catholic"

Too many Protestants are duped by the iron fist clothed in velvet.

Learn some history and realize how Rome really viewed and treated protestants.

The teachings that ran the Inquisition, and the teaching that every person is to be subject to even the Pope's temporal authority have never been rescinded.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Budge

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Budge' date='Sep 27 2006, 06:10 PM' post='1076877']
Is this what you learned at your one world religion WCC Commie meetings, to call anyone who disagrees with you a VIRUS or a CANCER? I guess the TOLERANCE antichrist gospel shows its true heart which is pure evil.


As for pillaging Christians from denominations, youre wrong, all I care about is if someone is saved in Jesus Christ, and I believe there are Christians in churches that are not Baptist. When I witness I do not preach be Baptist, I preach Are you saved in Jesus Christ? What I want to to know too is if they have been deceived by liberalism and eumenism and the antichrist march to Rome? The WCC DEFINITELY IS. "


Budge, though I cringe at a faith or a person being compared to a cancer or a virus, I have seen your own message board. Your words here also reflect that same unkindness--when I was in Rome there wasn't any anti-christ march going on There is the presence of Christ in a way that cannot be explained.

Budge, I believe in you. The harder you swing, the closer you come to The Church with open arms.

Edited September 27, 2006 by Mary-Kathryn

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Budge,

Look up "ex cathedra"... and then come back and discuss VII and Dominus Iesus. As of now, your posts betray your ignorance about what "ex cathedra" is and what it means. Neither VII nor a document from the CDF could possibly fall under ex cathedra statements. VII was an Ecumenical Council and Dominus Iesus was a document written by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076990' date='Sep 27 2006, 05:57 PM']
stuff
[/quote]

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1076505' date='Sep 27 2006, 08:11 AM']
This document per usual is just Rome exalting its throne and proclaiming it should be in charge of all Christian churches.

[b]Christian unity to a Christian is unity in Jesus Christ, ie I know I am united to all born again Bible Christians.[/b]

Christian unity to a Catholic is submission to the Pope.


[/quote]

(Emphisis mine)


So, although you may hold wildly different beleifs, you're still united? It seems to me that if two churches have different docterines, they are not united, but are separate.

BTW: Can you explain to me how submitting to an authority is necessarily a bad thing?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, councils can't be ex cathedra. The two have nothing to do with each other.

[N/A Gone]

[quote]Just because a kid is brought up in a Christian home, doesnt mean they ever become truly born again, and make the faith their own.

Considering so many churches that have fallen away, including Baptist and others, following the siren calls of everything from ecumenicalism to Rick Warrens--self esteem gospel, just because you were raised "evangelical" proves nothing.

What was the name of your particular denomination?[/quote]

Budge...when I speak of my past and my work I get accused of bragging by you. But yet, you do still not understand. I was not a kid brought up ina christian home. I became a christian in high school. At an evangelical Baptist school. At a very young age I was given credit for my theology and my debate skills. I was directly under the mentorship of Dr. Greg Boyd, a very well respected theologian from the Baptist General Conference. I was on speaking terms with numerous other protestant theologians from multiple denominational backgrounds. I was offered scholarships from numerous protestant theology programs from all over the country. Including but not limited to Trinity(ill.), Emmanuel, Bethel, Princton, Fuller,and Luther.(minneapolis) I am currently attending a private school that specializes in academic Biblical studies and Pastoral Leadership, funded by the Evangelical Council and many denominational supporters. I am in good standings at the school and still within the protestant community that I work with. I reconcilled myself to catholicism slightly over 2 years ago. My faith started as an evangelical and grew into a catholic. Please. Do not insult your position by claiming that I was never "born again" just because I became Catholic. The faith was/is my own. I lived in your world and excelled. From a personal devotion side and an academic side.

I was anti-denominational. So you could describe it as a free church eccesiology. But with Boyd as my mentor I was in the Baptist General Conference; But exposed to many different churches.


New Reformation..
Ever read any Mark Noll or Craig Braaten? Just curious based on your name. Symbols can have different origins, but what matters is what the symbol means to the individual person. To me that symbol is trintarian. I learned of it from a respected protestant patristic scholar.

About the fundi things. I will not recant my virus/cancer language. But th big surprise is that I did not develop this as a catholic. I had it as an evangelical. If anything I have more charity now as a catholic with this issue. As a younger aggressive protestant I worked hard against Fundis. Not the individual person, but their choosen epistemology of hate. I wont call you a virus. I dont know you. but the fundi concept is strongly opposed by many in the protestant community. There are good christians that have fallen pray to the movement. Theologically it is easy to tear the straw arguments and automious excuses apart. But the danger is in the aggresive nature of hate to denominations that are different then themselves. This is not just to catholics, but other protestants as well. Not all Baptists are fundamentalists. The vast majority would label themselves evangelical and eccesiologically speaking these are two different and often fighting parties. I am an evangelical, hence my aggresive attitude towards fundamentalism. I am speaking as an independant theologian here, not speaking for the Church. But we can talk more on this still.

Mary-Kay,
If all you care about is if someone has accepted Christ. Than we have no problems. Im all checked on that part. and I assure you that the posters here are as well. Remember, I didnt call Budge a virus. But rather that she is sick with a virus. I am sure she is a great lady and has a great faith. like a body with cancer.

Once again. I know this is aggresive. I speak in this personally, and not on behalf of phatmass

Edited September 28, 2006 by Revprodeji

[thessalonian]

Actually Im waiting for some Catholics to come on here and tell you [quote]Vatican 2 was ex cathedra.

Vatican 2 is seen as so much of a failure now Im sure theyve rescinded that ex cathedra status.



In fact all over I see Catholics writing Vatican 2 is not ex cathedra.[/quote]

You loose all credibility if you had any posting something like this. Councils are not ex cathedra. Ex Cathedra means from the chair and applies to the authority of the Pope, not councils. Councils make infallible statements of their own, in communion with the Pope. But I guess ignorance is bliss. It is quite clear you have no clue about Catholicism .

Edited September 28, 2006 by thessalonian

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1077518' date='Sep 28 2006, 12:11 AM']


New Reformation..
Ever read any Mark Noll or Craig Braaten? Just curious based on your name. Symbols can have different origins, but what matters is what the symbol means to the individual person. To me that symbol is trintarian. I learned of it from a respected protestant patristic scholar.

About the fundi things. I will not recant my virus/cancer language. But th big surprise is that I did not develop this as a catholic. I had it as an evangelical. If anything I have more charity now as a catholic with this issue. As a younger aggressive protestant I worked hard against Fundis. Not the individual person, but their choosen epistemology of hate. I wont call you a virus. I dont know you. but the fundi concept is strongly opposed by many in the protestant community. There are good christians that have fallen pray to the movement. Theologically it is easy to tear the straw arguments and automious excuses apart. But the danger is in the aggresive nature of hate to denominations that are different then themselves. This is not just to catholics, but other protestants as well. Not all Baptists are fundamentalists. The vast majority would label themselves evangelical and eccesiologically speaking these are two different and often fighting parties. I am an evangelical, hence my aggresive attitude towards fundamentalism. I am speaking as an independant theologian here, not speaking for the Church. But we can talk more on this still.

Mary-Kay,
If all you care about is if someone has accepted Christ. Than we have no problems. Im all checked on that part. and I assure you that the posters here are as well. Remember, I didnt call Budge a virus. But rather that she is sick with a virus. I am sure she is a great lady and has a great faith. like a body with cancer.

Once again. I know this is aggresive. I speak in this personally, and not on behalf of phatmass
[/quote]

A: It would seem you have a very poor understanding of what a fundamentalist is...or at least a very different definition of what one is than I do. So let's settle that.

B: Yes, you did call Budge a virus. You stated that fundies are a virus, a cancer. You didn't differentiate between them being a virus or being sick with a virus.