United Nations-vatican Joined At The Hip

[Budge]

These plans are being put into play of course now, this is acouple years old, but continuing as always...

[quote]Code: ZE04100124

Date: 2004-10-01

Archbishop Lajolo's Wide-ranging Address at U.N.

From Human Cloning to the New World Order

NEW YORK, OCT. 1, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Here is the text of the address Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, Vatican secretary for relations with states, gave Wednesday at the general debate of a session of the U.N. General Assembly.

* * *

Mr. President,

1. The Holy See is honored to take part in the general debate of the General Assembly of the United Nations for the first time since the Resolution of last 1 July which formalized and specified the rights and prerogatives of its status as a Permanent Observer, a status which the Holy See has enjoyed since 1964. It is therefore, my pleasant duty to express sincere gratitude to all the member states. In approving the aforesaid Resolution, they signaled once again the particular bond of cooperation between the Apostolic See and the United Nations, already underlined by Pope John Paul II on his first visit to this assembly, exactly 25 years ago. It is a bond which, in some sense, is connatural to them: [b]both the Holy See and the United Nations have a universal vocation; no nation on earth is foreign to them. [/b]Both the Holy See and the United Nations have an overriding objective of peace: in fact peace, this supreme good, is written into the founding Charter of the United Nations, and it lies at the heart of the Gospel message which the Holy See is responsible for proclaiming to all nations.

(THE GOSPEL OF THE UN NGO--INSTEAD OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST)

In this significant circumstance, I am honored to convey to you, Mr. President, and to all of you gathered here to represent your noble countries, the respectful and cordial greetings of Pope John Paul II. I bring a special greeting to the secretary-general of the United Nations, Mr. Kofi Annan, and also to his worthy assistants. Their work, as recorded in the Annual Report of the Secretary General A/59/1, above all, with reference to conflict prevention and peacekeeping in the world, deserves the appreciation and gratitude of us all.

2. Several of the themes included on the agenda of this General Assembly may be considered essential for attaining the supreme objective of peace and for the future of humanity. To quote only a few: United Nations and new human world order; pursuit of the Millennium Goals; total and general disarmament; sustainable development; globalization and interdependence; international migration and development; human rights; human cloning. I shall limit myself to a brief presentation of the Holy See's position regarding some of these issues.


3. Among the Millennium goals, pride of place goes to the theme of poverty and development. I say pride of place, because it affects the right to subsistence of hundreds of millions of human beings, surviving -- as best they can -- below the threshold of what is necessary, as well as tens of millions of undernourished children unjustly deprived of the right to live. In order to find a lasting solution to these inhumane conditions, it is necessary to progress, under the aegis of the UN, towards a more flexible and more just international trade system. Furthermore, financial structures are needed which would favor development and cancellation of foreign debt for the poorest countries. Likewise, the results of scientific research and technology need to be generously shared, specifically in the field of health. On this matter I need say no more, since the Holy See's position has already been presented once again by Cardinal Angelo Sodano himself, the Secretary of State, at the conference on hunger and poverty held in New York on 20 September last. I repeat only this: the urgency of the situation cannot tolerate delay. It is a question of justice, not of charity, even if the need for charity remains and will always remain.

4. Of immediate relevance to the supreme good of peace is the theme of total and general disarmament. If it is true that the production and sale of arms to other countries endangers peace, it follows that severe and effective international controls are needed. The commitment of the U.N. in this area is attested by the various Conventions it has supported with reference to weapons of mass destruction as well as conventional weapons. But we are only at the beginning of a long process, with huge economic interests as obstacles along our path.

The problem of weapons of mass destruction is clearly to be distinguished from that of conventional weapons; but the latter have a terrible and unending contemporary relevance in the numerous armed conflicts that stain the world with blood, and also in terrorism.

5. Regional armed conflicts are so numerous that there is no time to list them all. However, there are some that I cannot omit to mention.

Above all there is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which dominated the whole of the second half of the last century. This conflict is not simply contained within the narrow territorial boundaries of the region itself. Those directly involved are the Israeli Government and the Palestinian Authority, and they have the grave duty to demonstrate their desire for peace. With this end in view, a "road map" has been drawn up and formally accepted by both parties; may they proceed along it with determination and courage! But the conflict is also followed with intense interest and often with passion by large sections of humanity. The Catholic Church, present in Palestine for 2,000 years, invites everyone to turn their backs on any action likely to destroy confidence, and to utter generous words of peace and make bold gestures of peace. And if peace is the fruit of justice, let it not be forgotten -- as Pope John Paul II has reminded us -- that there can be no justice without forgiveness. Indeed, without mutual forgiveness. This clearly requires greater moral courage than the use of arms.

Then there is the Iraqi conflict. The position of the Holy See concerning the military action of 2002-2003 is well known. Everyone can see that it did not lead to a safer world either inside or outside Iraq. The Holy See believes it is now imperative to support the present Government in its efforts to bring the country to normality and to a political system that is substantially democratic and in harmony with the values of its historic traditions.

The Holy See is gravely concerned about various African countries Sudan, Somalia, the countries in the Great Lakes region, Ivory Coast, etc., scarred by bloodshed arising from mutual conflicts and even more from internal strife. They need active international solidarity: more specifically, and connaturally, the African Union needs to intervene authoritatively so as to bring all legitimate interested parties around a negotiating table. The African Union has already demonstrated its ability to act successfully in some cases: it deserves recognition and support.

6. I have mentioned the theme of terrorism, an aberrant phenomenon, utterly unworthy of man, which has already assumed global dimensions: today no State can presume to be safe from it. Hence, without prejudice to the right and duty of each State to implement just measures to protect its citizens and its institutions, it seems obvious that terrorism can only be effectively challenged through a concerted multilateral approach, respecting the ius gentium, and not through the politics of unilateralism. No-one is in any doubt that the fight against terrorism means, first and foremost, neutralizing its active breeding-grounds. But the underlying causes are many and complex: political, social, cultural, religious; for this reason, what is still more important is long-term action, directed, with foresight and patience, at its roots, designed to stop it from spreading further and to extinguish its deadly contagious effects.

The Holy See and the entire Catholic Church is actively involved in this work. It is involved through its educational and charitable institutions which, wherever they are, are committed to raising the cultural and social level of the population, without any discrimination, especially on religious grounds; it is involved through interreligious dialogue, which has grown in intensity ever since the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council: this dialogue is directed towards objective mutual knowledge, sincere friendship and, wherever possible, free collaboration in the service of humanity. The Holy See will always be grateful to the authorities of other religions who demonstrate openness to such dialogue, and also to the civil authorities who encourage it, without any political interference, respecting the distinction between the religious and the civil sphere and the fundamental human right to freedom of religion.

7. The right to freedom of religion is sanctioned, together with other fundamental rights, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 10 December 1948. In reality, such fundamental human rights stand or fall together. And man stands or falls with them. For this reason -- in the view of the Holy See -- every effort has to be made to defend them in all fields. For this to happen, one particular danger must be avoided, which is found today in various countries and social settings. It is the idea that these fundamental human rights, as sanctioned by the Universal Declaration, are expressions of a particular culture and are therefore highly relative. No: at heart, they are expressions of the human being as such, even if the fact remains that, at different times and in different cultures, they may have been and may still be differently applied, in more or less adequate and acceptable ways.

8. Among the fundamental rights, or rather foremost among them, as the Universal Declaration explicitly states, is the right to life of every individual. The Holy See could say a great deal about the right to life of every individual, because the essence of its message is the "Gospel of life." "Evangelium Vitae" is the title of a well-known encyclical by Pope John Paul II, issued on 25 March 1995. The question of human cloning comes under the same broad heading. In a few weeks this General Assembly will resume its debate on human cloning. In this respect the Holy See is pleased to reaffirm its commitment to support the advancement of medical science, conducted always in a manner that respects human dignity, because it offers healing and cure for various diseases. With this end in view, the Holy See reiterates its support for the procurement and use of adult stem cells, and believes that the way forward is to draw up and implement a clear Convention that will result in a comprehensive ban on human cloning.

9. "Recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world": so begins the Preamble of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. It is one of the many undeniable merits of the U.N. to have proposed to the conscience of all humanity, more than 50 years ago, these secure principles for progress towards peace. Over the years, however, the United Nations Organization, like every human organization, has needed to adapt its procedures to take account of developments on the world political scene so that its work for the promotion of peace can become more effective. The first results of the high-level commission set up for this purpose by Secretary-General Kofi Annan were published last June. The Holy See will be able to offer some explicit evaluation on the occasion of the debate on the subject to be held next week.

For now I should simply like to recall Pope John Paul II's words for this year's World Day of Peace. He reminded us that "humanity today is in a new and more difficult phase of its genuine development" and for this reason -- echoing the voice of his predecessors -- he called for "a greater degree of international ordering." This could be brought about by giving organizations like the U.N. special prerogatives to facilitate action to prevent conflicts at times of international crisis, and also, when absolutely necessary, "humanitarian intervention," that is, action aimed at disarming the aggressor. Yet the "greater degree of international ordering" could be achieved still more effectively if the U.N. were to rise from "the cold status of an administrative institution" -- to quote Pope John Paul II once again to the status of "a moral center, where all the nations of the world feel at home and develop a shared awareness of being, as it were, a family of nations."

10. Mr. President, now and in the future, the U.N. can always count on the Holy See to be not only an attentive permanent observer, but also a traveling companion, ever ready to support its complex and difficult activity in conformity with the proper nature and according to the proper possibilities of the Holy See and also to collaborate, in a spirit of freedom and friendship, with all the member states.

Thank you, Mr. President.

email this article[/quote]

There it is all condensed into one sentence, the large one in bold above......

[b]
"the U.N. can always count on the Holy See to be not only an attentive permanent observer, but also a traveling companion.."[/b]

"Fellow Traveller" with the ONE WORLD GOVT organization working hard to be the Universal end times Revelation 17 church, united with the globalists and one world government, which is warned of in Revelation.
[font="Arial Black"]
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.[/font]

"Let those with eyes see and ears hear"

[url="http://news.google.com/nwshp?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&tab=wn&q=Vatican%20and%20UN"]CATCH THE LATEST TRAVELING TOGETHER HERE[/url]

Edited September 26, 2006 by Lil Red

[Winchester]

So where have we changed doctrine to coincide with the UN?

Hydra syndrome.

[Budge]

By now you should have figured out I do not just examine the official paperwork of the Roman Catholic Church but its actions.

So what do you think of the Vatican joining with the UN as FELLOW TRAVELERS. I know some here do not like the UN.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073713' date='Sep 24 2006, 01:52 PM']
By now you should have figured out I do not just examine the official paperwork of the Roman Catholic Church but its actions.

So what do you think of the Vatican joining with the UN as FELLOW TRAVELERS. I know some here do not like the UN.
[/quote]
What do you think of the prophets who willingly went into exile with their people? Do you think they enjoyed Babylon, or do you think that, ever striving to bring the people to God, and even the people of Babylon to God, they went and stayed even among sinners? What about Christ dining with tax collectors? The Church is not backing up the evils of the UN any more than Jesus promoted prostitution and usury. Don't be a Pharisee.

[Budge]

The Vatican calls itself a fellow traveler with the UN, it is joining with the UN, in fact I know the Vatican even has worked together with UNESCO as well.

The Vatican is backing up the evils of the UN even having offered support for its The UN Millennium Development Goals, ties with several of its interfaith organizations, and UNESCO.

With the one exception of abortion, the Vatican is on board with all of the UN's goals including involvement in the WTO.

[quote]NEW YORK, FEB. 15, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Last year's debate over the U.S.-led military intervention in Iraq left some Catholics wondering why the Church seemed so supportive of the United Nations.How is it, they asked, that an organization that promotes abortion, artificial birth control and radical feminism is viewed so favorably by the Church?

(THATS CALLED COMPROMISE: The BIBLE teaches that Christians are NOT to be yoked to unbelievers}

In fact, the Church has criticized the United Nations on numerous occasions, particularly on family-related themes. But it also has a long history of support for the organization. John Paul II recently reaffirmed this. "The Holy See," the Pope said last Saturday in his words of welcome for the visit of Julian Robert Hunte, president of the U.N. 58th General Assembly, "considers the United Nations organization a significant means for promoting the universal common good."

(HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE CONSIDERING IT PROMOTES LIBERAL AGENDAS< ABORTION< GAY RIGHTS ETC?)

The Holy Father's message for World Day of Peace on Jan. 1 laid out in clear terms the Church's position in favor of international cooperation, including a key role for the United Nations[/size].

Even a Cardinal spoke of nations ceding their power to the UN....

[quote]
Date: 2004-02-11

Violation of International Law Leads to Anarchy, Cardinal Martino Warns

Says Nations Must Be Willing to Cede Some Power in Deference to U.N.

TRANI, Italy, FEB. 11, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Wary of the law of force, Cardinal Renato Martino warned that "the violation of international law plunges everyone into a condition of anarchy and profound illegality."

Cardinal Martino, president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, expressed this conviction last weekend when addressing a Congress of Catholic Jurists, being held here on the theme "Peace and International Law."

Referring to the main points in John Paul II's message for the 2004 World Day of Peace, Cardinal Martino emphasized the irreplaceable function of international law in the defense of peace itself.
The cardinal said that [u]the growth of such law requires that states be willing to cede ever-larger shares of their sovereignty to achieve security and the universal common good[/u].

It is the task of international law to avoid the dominance of the law of the strongest or the wealthiest, and to substitute the law of force with the force of law, said the cardinal who for 16 years was the Holy See's permanent observer to the United Nations.

He cautioned that the violation of international law could have lasting negative repercussions.

Cardinal Martino contended that the prohibition of the use of force, except for cases authorized by the U.N. Security Council and established in the U.N. Charter, is an obligatory rule of the international order. He echoed a contention of the Pope, that war is always a defeat of humanity.

the United Nations "is the most important instrument of synthesis and coordination of international life," Cardinal Martino said. For the United Nations to carry out its function, states must give up unilateral actions that undermine its strength and contravene the principles of its Charter, he continued.

(Remember this is the same group that is pro-abortion and gay rightss)

Referring again to the papal message of peace, the president of the Council for Justice and Peace said that, to be effective, the just and imperative struggle against terrorism cannot be limited solely to repression, but must eliminate the causes and elaborate appropriate juridical instruments of prevention and control.

"In any case," the cardinal added, "democratic governments know very well that the use of force against terrorists cannot justify the giving up of the principles of the state of law and in no case imply the violation of the fundamental rights of the human person."

email this article[/quote]

The Vatican isnt exactly a supporter of American soverignity.

Time to wake up, and go study some of this stuff for yourselves.

[url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&q=Vatican+support+for+the+United+Nations&btnG=Search"]VATICAN SUPPORT FOR THE UNITED NATIONS[/url]

Jesus dined with sinners but he didnt yoke to them.

Christians are called to be seperate from the world.

Joining with the UN as a fellow traveler is joining the world.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Lil Red

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073744' date='Sep 24 2006, 02:21 PM']
Jesus dined with sinners but he didnt yoke to them.

Christians are called to be seperate from the world.

Joining with the UN as a fellow traveler is joining the world.
[/quote]

Jesus willingly counted Himself as among sinners (Baptism in the Jordan) and was willing to die for it. The Church does the same, working with the powers of the world for the glory of God, in order to show them the way. The Church has always operated this way. It's why the early Christians went to their deaths pledging allegiance to the emperor. We support that powers that exist in the world while trying to convert them, but we never support their sins or evils.

Christians are called to be active in the world. Christ sent us out "as sheep amidst wolves." We are the leaven. Leaven is something added to the dough to make it rise. So we are added to the world to raise it up to God. This is very clear from Scripture.

[Budge]

[quote]The Church does the same, working with the powers of the world for the glory of God, in order to show them the way. The Church has always operated this way. [size=5]It's why the early Christians went to their deaths pledging allegiance to the emperor.We support that powers that exist in the world while trying to convert them, but we never support their sins or evils.[/quote]



[quote]"working with the powers of the world for the glory of God"[/quote]

[font="System"]1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[/font]
[quote]
"Its why the early Christians went to their deaths pledging allegiance to the emperor"[/quote]



The early Christians went to their deaths REFUSING to PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE ROMAN EMPERORS BECAUSE THEY HAD TO WORSHIP HIM AS god!

[quote]We support the powers that exist in the world[/quote]

Sadly the Catholic church DOES.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Edited September 26, 2006 by Lil Red

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073761' date='Sep 24 2006, 02:32 PM']

[font="System"]1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.[/font]

[/quote]
Cute. However, there is a difference between being in the world and being of the world. The Church operates in the world without being of the world.

[quote][size=5]The early Christians went to their deaths REFUSING to PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE ROMAN EMPERORS BECAUSE THEY HAD TO WORSHIP HIM AS god![/size]
Sadly the Catholic church DOES.
[size=4][/quote]

No, the early Christians respected the emperor as a temporal power and supported him in everything except his hatred of Christianity. This is what St. Paul said to do, isn't it? Aren't we supposed to be subject to worldy authority, which draws its power from God, in so far as it wields that authority rightly? If the UN does something right, shouldn't the Church support it in that? If you have a wicked child, and he does something good, shouldn't you praise him, so that he will begin to want to do the good more and more? Isn't this what Jesus does with Zacchaeus? He made one good move in his whole life and Christ went to dine with him in his house. Are you not like those who watched and grumbled that Jesus was eating with a sinner?

The early Christians refused to acknowledge the emperor as a god, but they most definitely acknowledged him as the emperor. Do your research.

[Budge]

You just wrote that the early Christians pledged allegiance to the emperor,

you are wrong about this.

I went to go get a historical source...

The Christians were KILLED in ROME for refusing to GIVE ALLEGIANCE to the EMPEROR.
[quote]
PLINY (Governor of the Province of Bithynia-Pontus) Epistles Book 10 #96 addressed to the Emperor Trajan (ca. 112 A.D.)

"...I have never been present at an examination of Christians. So, I do not know the nature or the extent of the punishments usually dealt out to them, nor the grounds for starting an investigation and how far it should be carried...For the moment this is the line I have taken with all persons brought before me on the charge of being Christians. I have asked them in person if they are Christians; if they admit it, I repeat the question a second and athird time, with a warning of the punishment awaiting them. If they persist, I order them to be led away for punishment; for whatever the nature of their admission, I am convinced that their stubbornness (contumacia) and unshakeable obstinacy ought to be punished. There have been others similarly fanatical who are Roman citizens; I have entered them on the list of persons to be sent to Rome for punishment.... I considered that I should dismiss any who denied that they were or ever had been Christians,[size=5] once they had repeated after me a formula of invocation to the gods and had made offerings of wine and incense to your statue (which I had ordered to be brought into court for this purpose along with images of the gods), and furthermore had ursed the name of Christ. Real Christians (I understand) can never be induced to do these things...[/size].They declared that the sum total of their guilt or error amounted to no more than this: they had met regularly before dawn on a fixed day to chant verses alternately among themselves in honor of Christ as if to a god, and also to bind themselves by oath, not for any criminal purpose, but to abstain from theft, robbery and adultery, to commit no breach of trust and not to refuse toreturn a deposit upon demand. After this ceremony it had been their custom to disperse and later to take food of an ordinary harmless kind. But they had in fact given this up since my edict, issued on your instructions which banned all political societies. This made me decide it was all the more necessary to extract the truth from two slave women (whom they call `deaconesses' bytorture. I found nothing but a degenerate sort of cult carried to xtravagant lengths... I have therefore postponed any further examination and hastened toconsult you..."[/quote]

[url="http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/xtians.html"]LINK HERE FROM ACADEMIC SITE[/url]

[quote]

No, the early Christians respected the emperor as a temporal power and supported him in everything except his hatred of Christianity. This is what St. Paul said to do, isn't it? [/quote]

They went to their deaths refusing to respect him as a power and did NOT support him in everything.

When the antichrist comes, are you going to respect him as a temporal power and support him in everything?

[quote]Aren't we supposed to be subject to worldy authority, which draws its power from God, in so far as it wields that authority rightly?[/quote]

We are to obey God rather then men. This is what the apostles taught.

When men demand evil things, God's authority comes FIRST.


The responses here are freaking me out.

I didnt remark on this one yet, but it made my jaw drop.

Raphael along with the strange ideas saying early Christians paid homage to the emperors of Rome also wrote this...in post 6

[quote]
Jesus willingly counted Himself as among sinners (Baptism in the Jordan) and was willing to die for it.
[/quote]

Jesus WAS NOT A SINNER NOR DID HE CONSIDER HIMSELF ONE!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073782' date='Sep 24 2006, 02:54 PM']
Jesus WAS NOT A SINNER NOR DID HE CONSIDER HIMSELF ONE!
[/quote]
Budge, I'll address the rest of this later, as I'm going to go meet my parents in a minute.

I want to address this now. Simply, I never said He considered Himself one. I said that He allowed himself to be counted among them. That's in the Bible.

[KnightofChrist]

Bugde,

Jerusalem was also know as "city on seven hills" when the book of The Apocalypse was written, that is a historical fact.

The harlot of Babylon is referred to as the "great city," in Apoc 7:18 and in chapter 18. Apocolypse tells us flat out in 11:9, "...and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the GREAT CITY which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their [u][b]Lord was crucified[/b][/u]."

The book of The Apocalypse is telling us that the "Great City 'is Jerusalem, for Jerusalem is where Christ was crucified, it was not ROME, VACTIAN CITY, or anyother city on earth... Jerusalem. That is a fact.

Mother Church does not reject Christ, she preaches His salvation, a house divided against itself can not stand, however Mother Church has stood for 2,000 yrs since she was founded by Christ.

No nation on earth to day is more "joined at the hip" to the Un than Israel, the UN created the current state of Israel which in The Holy Bible, and the KJV is called 'the harlot."

What is your answer to Apoc 11:9? Do you have a anwswer to Apoc 11:9? If not you stand defeated.

Edited September 24, 2006 by KnightofChrist

[Franimus]

so the Vatican says it supports the UN's mission of peace, etc... but where does the UN give any support to the Vatican?

[Socrates]

If one reads the entire article, he'll notice that the bolded section refers to work to prevent the spread of terrorism. (But, I guess, according to Budge, fighting against terrorism is now a Mark of the Beast.)

As regards the Catholic Church's relation to the U.N., the Church has been the strongest force in opposing the promotion of things such as abortion and homosexual "rights" by the U.N. The Church has hardly been a lackey to godless agenda of many in the U.N., but has worked harder than any other state to block such evils from being promoted by U.N. resolutions.
Those against the promotion of such evils by the U.N. should thank the Church, rather than attack it.

Of course it's much easier to screech about "the Whore of Babylon" and the "New World Order" than to actually read up on what the Catholic Church is doing as regards the U.N.

[Budge]

I believe the UN is so godless in its promotion of humanism, abortion, euthanasia, legalization of prostitution, thugacrats, third way policies--marriage of Communism with Capitalism, exploitation of the world's poor via WTO, and more that no decent church [and I include Prots in that mix including Rick Warren who has hooked up with the UN] should'nt have anything to do with it as an organization.

Whatever happened to Christians who were against one world goverment?

[url="http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21158"]Catholic Church has great faith in U.N., new Vatican secretary of state says[/url]

This is faith that should be in Jesus Christ.

Globalism has become a new religion and the UN supports Interfaithism, URI is a UN sponsered group as well as many others.

The UN's culture of peace and ways of peace are not those of Christ's.

This is the march to Revelation 17.

You truly think the organization that has had Chavez and the president of Iran insult and threaten America and has been behind the Oil for Food scandals is really going to be a force for good in the world?

I know that Cardinals have received awards from UNESCO, that the Popes have done endless speeches supporting the UN, and even John XXIII's Pacem En Terris supported the UN.

Edited September 24, 2006 by Budge

[Franimus]

It's called "idealism"