Uh-oh!

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073707' date='Sep 24 2006, 01:39 PM']
Ah 20 disclaimers.



Why cant they ever say something direct ever?

I think theology degrees only serve to make people more confused.

Most pastors coming out of even Prot seminaries that focus more on theology are getting further and further away from Gods Word.
[/quote]


Because the Catholic church does not subscribe to your brand of sound-bite theology

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073655' date='Sep 24 2006, 11:04 AM']
This is IRONIC! - Debates With Prots Forbidden?

www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm


What should all those Catholic apologists do?

Uh oh, you are all now excommunicated. Pick up your check, youre done, and go find good Christian churches...


[/quote]


Your post is of no surprise to refrain from addressing the context and full truth of the statement that you quote. Maybe you got the quote from a non-Catholic source, and if that is so, it shows that your research skills are quite poor to study the Catholic teachings from someone who hates it. There is a term you might want to learn and give some thought to... "bias". There are millions of Catholics that say your sources are wrong about the Catholic Church... people who have been Catholic many years and have a strong understanding of the Church. Stop being a fool by listening to people who do not understand the Church about the Church.

There is a difference between debate and apologetics. Apologetics simply tries to explain the what and the why of the Catholic faith, we don't focus on what you have wrong about God. What you think about the Catholic teachings is similar to believing that two plus two is one. Christian charity demands that we try to explain to you what the Church really teaches.

In fact I have had to come to the defence of Muslims lately due to the Quran being quoted with lies. Not because I believe the Quran is a good book, but because people claimed things where there that simply where not.

The Germans fell into the pit of hate of Jews during WWII... today we have people like you falling into the hate of Catholics and Muslims over false statements... just as the Germans did in WWII. Are you wise enough to see your folly? Or will you allow yourself to be blinded by ignorance and lies?


The context of the quote.....

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm[/url]
[quote]This law, like all penal laws, must be very narrowly construed. The terms Catholic Faith and dispute have a technical signification. The former term refers to questions purely theological; the latter to disputations more or less formal, and engrossing the attention of the public. There are numerous questions, somewhat connected with theology, which many laymen who have received no scientific theological training can treat more intelligently than a priest. In modern life, it frequently happens that an O'Connell or a Montalembert must stand forward as a defender of Catholic interests upon occasions when a theologian would be out of place. But when there is a question of dogmatic or moral theology, every intelligent layman will concede the propriety of leaving the exposition and defence of it to the clergy.

But the clergy are not free to engage in public disputes on religion without due authorization. In the Collectanea S. Cong. de Prop. Fide" (p. 102, n. 294) we find the following decree, issued 8 March, 1625: "The Sacred Congregation has ordered that public discussions shall not be held with heretics, because for the most part, either owing to their loquacity or audacity or to the applause of the audience, error prevails and the truth is crushed. But should it happen that such a discussion is unavoidable, notice must first be given to the S. Congregation, which, after weighing the circumstances of time and persons, will prescribe in detail what is to be done. The Sacred Congregation enforced this decree with such vigour, that the custom of holding public disputes with heretics wellnigh fell into desuetude. [See the decree of 1631 regarding the missionaries in Constantinople; also the decrees of 1645 and 1662, the latter forbidding the General of the Capuchins to authorize such disputes (Collectanea, 1674, n. 302).]

That this legislation is still in force appears from the letter addressed to the bishops of Italy by Cardinal Rampolla in the name of the Cong. for Ecclesiastical Affairs (27 Jan., 1902) in which it is declared that discussions with Socialists are subject to the decrees of the Holy See regarding public disputes with heretics; and, in accordance with the decree of Propaganda, 7 Feb., 1645, such public disputations are not to be permitted unless there is hope of producing greater good and unless the conditions prescribed by theologians are fulfilled. The Holy See, it is added, considering that these discussions often produce no result at all or even result in harm, has frequently forbidden them and ordered ecclesiastical superiors to prevent them; where this cannot be done, care must be taken that the discussions are not held without the authorization of the Apostolic See; and that only those who are well qualified to secure the triumph of Christian truth shall take part therein. It is evident, then, that no Catholic priest is ever permitted to become the aggressor or to issue a challenge to such a debate. If he receives from the other party to the controversy a public challenge under circumstances which make a non-acceptance appear morally impossible, he must refer the case to his canonical superiors and be guided by their counsel. We thus reconcile two apparently contradictory utterances of the Apostles: for according to St. Peter (1 Peter 3:15) you should be "ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you", while St. Paul admonishes Timothy (2 Timothy 2:14), "Contend not in words, for it is to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers".[/quote]



Be a barking dog or swine... we have done our part, your blood is on your hands.


Something to ask yourself... Would Jesus want you to base your opinion of the Catholic Church on lies by others or what the Catholic Church really teaches?

-ironmonk

[SJP]

Cam42 said:

"Budge, Budge, Budge......

Unfortunately you treat that snippet like you treat Sacred Scripture.

What else is said in that New Advent article.......


QUOTE
To discuss as doubting the truth of the faith, is a sin; to discuss for the purpose of refuting error, is praiseworthy. At the same time the character of the audience must be considered. If they are well instructed and firm in their belief, there is no danger; if they are simple-minded then, where they are solicited by unbelievers to abandon their faith, a public defence is needful, provided it can be undertaken by competent parties."



Budge, if you insist on cut and paste, at least have enough sense to read the entire passage

It just makes it very difficult to take any of your charges seriously when you continually destroy your own credibility.

[Budge]

[quote]
Budge, if you insist on cut and paste, at least have enough sense to read the entire passage rolleyes.gif[/quote]

MORE WEASLE words....one thing about Catholic documents, nothing is ever direct, but lost in a morass of Vaticanese, vagueness and fog.

Always 20 disclaimers on every finite statement.

Always a dozen 'outs' per paper.

Satan is the author of confusion.
[mod]Pic too big - dUST[/mod]

[Winchester]

By calling people satan I reckon you mean to upset us.

Oooh I'm so angry! Grrrrr!!!!

[Budge]

Hey Mr. Class Clown prancing pirate...

who called you Satan?

I didnt.

But you joined the Defend the Truths of Satan brigade without even a moments hesitation didnt you?

[Winchester]

I'm glad you think I'm funny.

Never did what you're accusing me of, tho.

I merely said that truth is truth no matter who speaks it. And we should laud the truth no matter the source.

You're being dishonest.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1074003' date='Sep 24 2006, 05:09 PM']
Hey Mr. Class Clown prancing pirate...

who called you Satan?

I didnt.

But you joined the Defend the Truths of Satan brigade without even a moments hesitation didnt you?
[/quote]


Please stop. Thank you. You are incorrect in your philosophy. Thank you. See the "Why does the Pope...." thread if you are in the least bit confused.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073994' date='Sep 24 2006, 07:05 PM']
MORE WEASLE words....one thing about Catholic documents, nothing is ever direct, but lost in a morass of Vaticanese, vagueness and fog.

Always 20 disclaimers on every finite statement.

Always a dozen 'outs' per paper.

Satan is the author of confusion.
[/quote]

Or maybe they are addressed to grown-ups, not children,

although

I took this quote to my 10 year old neighbor:

"To discuss as doubting the truth of the faith, is a sin; to discuss for the purpose of refuting error, is praiseworthy. At the same time the character of the audience must be considered. If they are well instructed and firm in their belief, there is no danger; if they are simple-minded then, where they are solicited by unbelievers to abandon their faith, a public defence is needful, provided it can be undertaken by competent parties."

and after defining refute and solicite, after a few minutes of puzzling, he could explain exactly what it meant.

The idea that all ideas can and should be be reduced to one line of explanation is idiotic. "We are to be as wise as serpents and innocent as doves." That is why its so logical to be Catholic.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073994' date='Sep 24 2006, 06:05 PM']
MORE WEASLE words....one thing about Catholic documents, nothing is ever direct, but lost in a morass of Vaticanese, vagueness and fog.

Always 20 disclaimers on every finite statement.

Always a dozen 'outs' per paper.

Satan is the author of confusion.

[/quote]

Best use of a weasel ever.

And yes, our system is very nuanced and very complete, so that even childern and the simple can live and understand the faith, while the scholar and the theologian will never run out of material even if the memorize the Bible in more then one language.

And, to a certain extent I agree with you about theologians. If they hoard their knowledge and become intellectually arogant they are like those scribes who used their knowledge of Scripture to opress people. St. Francis of Assisi was also really hard on such people.

[Franimus]

I don't see how Budge is being a good Christian in her eyes in light of my last post...

[Lil Red]

[u][b]TO BUDGE:[/b][/u]

dUSt (the webmaster and the guy who pays for your ability to post foolishness) has asked you not to use huge font sizes. please respect his request.

use the [b]bold feature[/b], the[u] underline feature[/u], the [i]italics feature[/i] or the [color="#FF0000"]colors feature. [/color] or[b][i] [u][color="red"]heck, all four![/b][/u][/color][/i]