Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Catholics here have said that the Mass is a representation of the one time sacrifice on the cross.... however... If its NOT a NEW SACRIFICE why does priest, ask if the sacrice is acceptable to God? QUOTE Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father." Does this not tell you that the sacrifice of the mass/eucharist is more than just a re-presentation? The sacrifice of Christ is already acceptable to God the Father! Rome's prayer in the liturgy for their sacrifice to be acceptable only proves that they don't believe Christ's finished and perfect sacrifice at Calvary was wholly and completely acceptable to God the Father. If it does not, then why pray for it to be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 (edited) It is the same sacrifice as on the cross, it is exactly that, a 're-presentation', look up the eptimology of the word. Without a proper understanding of the concept of mystery and sign, your copy and paste arguments really don't accomplish anything. The mass is Christ's self-donation to world for salvation. Not "their" sacrifice. The sacrifice man makes to God is of the todah, the "sacrifice of praise" as described in the Psalms. All of this is obvious to even the most casual Bible reader. Your use of bolding and underlining do nothing for your integrity and only show that you have no real argument so you must 'emphasize' or 'yell' at us to try to get a point across. Read Hebrews again. Edited September 22, 2006 by Brother Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1071298' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:33 PM'] Catholics here have said that the Mass is a representation of the one time sacrifice on the cross.... however... If its NOT a NEW SACRIFICE why does priest, ask if the sacrice is acceptable to God? [/quote] Actually, the text you quote comes before the Consecration. The priest is asking God to accept the sacrifice of bread and wine and transform it into Christ. That is a new sacrifice, since that particular bread and wine have not been offered before, but it is Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, by which He transforms the bread and wine, that merits salvation. With regards to the sacrifice of the Mass as a whole, ditto what Adam says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 QUOTE God is not bound by our human understanding Budge me dear. Take a powder. Telling me "its a mystery" isnt really explaining things. Either it is a representation of the same sacrifice or it isn't. Heres another Catholic teaching that shows it is NOT the SAME SACRIFICE... QUOTE 1350 The presentation of the offerings (the Offertory). Then, sometimes in procession, the bread and wine are brought to the altar; they will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his body and blood. It is the very action of Christ at the Last Supper - "taking the bread and a cup." "The Church alone offers this pure oblation to the Creator, when she offers what comes forth from his creation with thanksgiving."177 The presentation of the offerings at the altar takes up the gesture of Melchizedek and commits the Creator's gifts into the hands of Christ who, in his sacrifice, brings to perfection all human attempts to offer sacrifices. You cant have other offerings {yourself, bread, wine etc} in ADDITION to Christ's sacrifice. The priest is doing ANOTHER offering because he is asking if it is acceptable to God... The priest is doing ANOTHER OFFERING because in this CCC, the bread and wine are called OFFERINGS and this CCC speaks of the presentation of OFFERINGS. This is what the Bible says... Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Could the mods disable Budgie's font capability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 hehehehehe I know Ive done a good post when almost everyone starts complaining about fonts, to change the subject. Actually the print on this board is too small, I like the bigger stuff and wish more of you would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1071324' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:46 PM'] Could the mods disable Budgie's font capability? [/quote] Wow...thanks for thinking of that...seriously. It would be a great help. I don't know if they can, though...let's hope. [quote name='Budge' post='1071327' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:47 PM'] hehehehehe I know Ive done a good post when almost everyone starts complaining about fonts, to change the subject. Actually the print on this board is too small, I like the bigger stuff and wish more of you would use it. [/quote] Well, I don't mind if you want bigger print, but I'd appreciate it if you used a consistent size and style. Anyway, "almost everyone" has answered your post with rebuttles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [size=1]Budge will NEVER accept anything we say. We are ONLY catholics. What do we know about being catholic anyways? Of course everything we say is bull shinobi so...w/e. Its kinda hopless. Im a catholic and I worship Budda cause thats the only way anything makes sense. But Budge wont believe me...because Im catholic and that automatically implies Im a nonsenseical lier. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Can we try and stay on topic please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1071322' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:45 PM'] Telling me "its a mystery" isnt really explaining things. Either it is a representation of the same sacrifice or it isn't. Heres another Catholic teaching that shows it is NOT the SAME SACRIFICE... You cant have other offerings {yourself, bread, wine etc} in ADDITION to Christ's sacrifice. The priest is doing ANOTHER offering because he is asking if it is acceptable to God... The priest is doing ANOTHER OFFERING because in this CCC, the bread and wine are called OFFERINGS and this CCC speaks of the presentation of OFFERINGS. This is what the Bible says... [size=5] Hbr 10:14 For by [u]one offering[/u] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.[/size] [/quote] I'm not trying to explain anything. I'm a terrible apologist. Anyone will tell you. I just want you to relax! You'll give yourself an ulcer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 Why? I feel perfectly fine today... I love the book of Hebrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1071339' date='Sep 22 2006, 09:59 AM'] Can we try and stay on topic please? [/quote] that's one of the funniest things i've ever read, budge. : you talk about 3 or 4 topics in one thread sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 22, 2006 Author Share Posted September 22, 2006 I know some of you may have a hard time keeping up with me... : Ok...lets go back to original topic. If the Mass is a representation of Christs one time SUFFICIENT sacrifice on the cross, [u]why does the priest ask if it is acceptable[/u]? Isnt this blasphemous to Christ, because how could anyone even conceive of the idea that what Jesus Christ did on the cross was unacceptable to God? Ok start with that point and work from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [size=1]I was absolutly on topic! [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Budge, Brother Adam and Raphael have already debunked this argument in this thread, but you haven't replied to them yet. As soon as you counter their points I will respond, but until then, the potential thought of being ignored by you is just too unbearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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