Charging Children As Adults

[homeschoolmom]

Yes, but if our dear children were beaten nearly to death at school, you wouldn't. And that's just backward.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1071208' date='Sep 22 2006, 11:12 AM']
I don't have time to debate you people. Suffice it to say that if your dear children were ever charged as adults, I would wish them more sympathy then you have shown.
[/quote]
If my children fractured the skull of an innocent, younger person, I would be asking the DA to charge them as adults [b]for their own good[/b]. I don't think people understand that prison isn't just a punishment, it's meant to reform people. That's why we let them out...if prison was just a punishment, it would be idiotic to let them out. It is a mark of charity to try this young man as an adult, charity to society by keeping others safe and charity to the attacker by letting him see that his actions have consequences and that he needs reform.

[Anomaly]

Facing the full consequences of one's choices is respecting the person. You propbably think I'm a monster because I made my kids have to deal with the consequences of not doing homework, missing school, quitting jobs, not having $$, moving out, making bad choices in lot's of aspects.

Funny thing is, my 17 & 20 yo kids are very mature for their age. They still choose to do things I would rather they not, but they look me in the eye and tell me they will deal with it. And they do. Sure, sometimes I'll help them out afterwards, but not so that they think I'll bail them out of a mess they made.

I'm guessing you're 15 or 16. Based on your life's experience, you may have a very different perspective on life then the perspective of others who have much more experience. That doesn't make you dumb, or worthless, just less experienced.

You have good ideas, but your conclusions aren't based on as broad experience. I'm almost 3 times your age and I would still ask my in-laws or mom's opinion on important matters because of their greater experince. Not that you should just listen to your elders and do what they say, but you should listen to what they say to utilize their knowledge and experience to evaluate and help shape your opinion.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1071219' date='Sep 22 2006, 11:28 AM']
Facing the full consequences of one's choices is respecting the person. You propbably think I'm a monster because I made my kids have to deal with the consequences of not doing homework, missing school, quitting jobs, not having $$, moving out, making bad choices in lot's of aspects.

Funny thing is, my 17 & 20 yo kids are very mature for their age. They still choose to do things I would rather they not, but they look me in the eye and tell me they will deal with it. And they do. Sure, sometimes I'll help them out afterwards, but not so that they think I'll bail them out of a mess they made.

I'm guessing you're 15 or 16. Based on your life's experience, you may have a very different perspective on life then the perspective of others who have much more experience. That doesn't make you dumb, or worthless, just less experienced.

You have good ideas, but your conclusions aren't based on as broad experience. I'm almost 3 times your age and I would still ask my in-laws or mom's opinion on important matters because of their greater experince. Not that you should just listen to your elders and do what they say, but you should listen to what they say to utilize their knowledge and experience to evaluate and help shape your opinion.
[/quote]

Well said.

I do want to say, in order to be fair, that sometimes parents really don't know what they're talking about.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1071225' date='Sep 22 2006, 09:32 AM']
Well said.

I do want to say, in order to be fair, that sometimes parents really don't know what they're talking about.[/quote]LOL. No kidding. But we got the job anyways.

What's really hillarious, we usually do know what's up when we get accused about being ignornat and the reall BS is usually swallowed hook-line-and-stinker!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1071230' date='Sep 22 2006, 11:36 AM']
LOL. No kidding. But we got the job anyways.

What's really hillarious, we usually do know what's up when we get accused about being ignornat and the reall BS is usually swallowed hook-line-and-stinker!
[/quote]
Well, after consulting God, my parents, friends, other RAs, my boss, my boss's boss, and the head of counseling services at my college, I quit my job as an RA this week. My parents were totally opposed to it...they think I'm lazy or something and they don't want me to have to take out more loans...everyone else (who see me on a daily basis) knows that the job was causing me terrible stress, interfering with my prayer, academic, and social life to an extreme, and was terribly inflexible, along with a boss who tried to tell me (against college policy) that the job came before studies.

My parents are ticked. They think I did something really stupid. I don't care. I made the right decision. If it costs me more in loans, tough luck...my studies come first.

That's just an example.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1071233' date='Sep 22 2006, 09:42 AM']
Well, after consulting God, my parents, friends, other RAs, my boss, my boss's boss, and the head of counseling services at my college, I quit my job as an RA this week. My parents were totally opposed to it...they think I'm lazy or something and they don't want me to have to take out more loans...everyone else (who see me on a daily basis) knows that the job was causing me terrible stress, interfering with my prayer, academic, and social life to an extreme, and was terribly inflexible, along with a boss who tried to tell me (against college policy) that the job came before studies.

My parents are ticked. They think I did something really stupid. I don't care. I made the right decision. If it costs me more in loans, tough luck...my studies come first.

That's just an example.
[/quote]I'm not your dad, but I can see both sides of this since my daughter has to pay for her college. At times I've told her she should quit her job when the school work is too demanding or the job is too demanding, but that doesn't mean she can't spend her time a bit wiser, find a better job. She has student loans (which I hate) because of choices she made reduced her 100% scholarship to 75%. I have no doubt that she will pay off her loans, but different choices would have prevented that. She and I both know tha lot's of people encouraged her to get loans in the first place so she wouldn't have to work at all. She already sees the short-sightedness of that.
Life ain't easy and the easy way out is usually just adding to the snowball you have to deal with later.

Social life? Get real. That's a low priority and I would strongly recommend you don't bring that up to your parents.

If quitting your job is reactionary, I'd be ticked too. If quitting your job is one step in a larger plan and you share the plan (plan, not a litnay of excuses), I'd support you. And parents do talk to other parents and friends, etc. who have faced similar problems, lived through them, and shared their experinces. We may be 'rents, but we don't operate in a complete vacuum.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1071268' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:04 PM']
I'm not your dad, but I can see both sides of this since my daughter has to pay for her college. At times I've told her she should quit her job when the school work is too demanding or the job is too demanding, but that doesn't mean she can't spend her time a bit wiser, find a better job. She has student loans (which I hate) because of choices she made reduced her 100% scholarship to 75%. I have no doubt that she will pay off her loans, but different choices would have prevented that. She and I both know tha lot's of people encouraged her to get loans in the first place so she wouldn't have to work at all. She already sees the short-sightedness of that.
Life ain't easy and the easy way out is usually just adding to the snowball you have to deal with later.

Social life? Get real. That's a low priority and I would strongly recommend you don't bring that up to your parents.

If quitting your job is reactionary, I'd be ticked too. If quitting your job is one step in a larger plan and you share the plan (plan, not a litnay of excuses), I'd support you. And parents do talk to other parents and friends, etc. who have faced similar problems, lived through them, and shared their experinces. We may be 'rents, but we don't operate in a complete vacuum.
[/quote]

Well, as I said, academics come first. I'm a catechetics major, which around here means I have about as much free time as the nursing majors, and a theology major on top of that. They wanted me on the same schedule every week for the whole semester, with no flexibility, and my duties far exceeded the other RAs' duties because I was the only one in my dorm (thus, for instance, I was on call every other weekend instead of once or twice a semester). As for the social life...you're right, it is a low priority, but you try not seeing any of your friends or having any time to be with other people in a social environment for three weeks and tell me if you're having a good time. I'm not talking about bar-hopping on school nights and going out of town on the weekends. The professors strive to assign three hours of homework for every one hour of class. That brings my workload to 72 hours per week for academics alone. Add 20 hours for RA work and you get 92 hours per week of work. Now, considering that you're supposed to sleep at least 8 hours per night, that comes to 148 hours out of every week, leaving 20 free hours. Now, factor in the time for traveling to and from school, Mass, prayers, meals, etc. It's all gone.

Students have to maintain balance. Is social life a priority? No. Do you need it? Yes. We are social creatures. We live in communion. I don't appreciate your dismissive attitude. I was having nervous breakdowns at least once a week.

As a matter of fact, quitting my job was part of a larger plan. God wants me to be a catechist. If I want to be a good one, then I need to be free to do my best in school now while they're training me. If I'm completely incapable of handling the workload and I have no peace or joy, I'm going to be useless in the future as a catechist and now as an RA. I needed to quit because I needed to be able to focus on what God is asking of me. I also needed to quit because I've spent my whole live trying to live up to my parents' expectations and I simply can't do it any longer. I don't need to justify myself to them and I don't need to justify myself to you.

Sometimes parents need to give their kids more credit.

Anyway, that's quite a tangent. My point is that sometimes parents are overbearing, judgmental, and have no idea what their kids are trying to say to them or that their kids are doing what's right.

Edited September 22, 2006 by Raphael

[toledo_jesus]

Hey Raphael, being an RA smells of elderberries. I quit after my first year. I'm surprised you went back. I really didn't like babysitting a bunch of resentful freshman and dealing with policy changes every other month (seriously). However, the monetary benefits came in handy, and I was able to drink a lot of confiscated beer. So, it was more or less breaking even for me.

Anyway, regarding the juvenile justice system...I say draw the line and don't cross it. Under 18? charge as a minor. Don't care if it was heinous. If you're really worried about it, be comforted by the fact that you can probably pick them up for something else after they turn 18 and lock em up. Extra attention can be paid to them so that they are less likely to commit a crime...or more readily picked up.
and if they go straight, so much the better.

Muddy waters. BLAH

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1071297' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:33 PM']
Hey Raphael, being an RA smells of elderberries. I quit after my first year. I'm surprised you went back. I really didn't like babysitting a bunch of resentful freshman and dealing with policy changes every other month (seriously). However, the monetary benefits came in handy, and I was able to drink a lot of confiscated beer. So, it was more or less breaking even for me.[/quote]
I didn't go back. It was my first year. Never again.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1071319' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:44 PM']
I didn't go back. It was my first year. Never again.
[/quote]
i thought you were doing this last semester???

well, glad you got out. if our experiences were similar, there's no reason for anyone to be an RA. Did you know at my school, if you gave them 3 years, they would start paying you? Well, we had a couple 3 year RAs who were mighty disappointed when they lost that due to a policy change. mighty disappointed.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1071326' date='Sep 22 2006, 12:47 PM']
i thought you were doing this last semester???

well, glad you got out. if our experiences were similar, there's no reason for anyone to be an RA. Did you know at my school, if you gave them 3 years, they would start paying you? Well, we had a couple 3 year RAs who were mighty disappointed when they lost that due to a policy change. mighty disappointed.
[/quote]
No, I was in training last semester...but it wasn't the same. Different environments (I had other RA's as coworkers, it wasn't me by myself with the resident coordinator), different duties (only one duty night per week in training, and none of the other hours used for planning, activities, and such), and a different school workload (I'm a senior, so it got kicked up a lot this year...more than I expected).

Wow...they actually lost their pay? That's just unfair. I'd sue, to be honest.

Anyway, the RA job at Franciscan, particularly at the dorm I was in, is not worth the 80% off room and board they give you. I was really coming unglued and people could tell (they'd seriously stop me in the middle of campus and tell me I looked like the living dead).


Oh, by the way, I was willing to put in morning hours, but my boss wouldn't let me. She said I needed to spend all my hours of "around the dorm time" in the evenings, preferably during the school week (which comes to 4 hours of dorm time every night, Monday-Friday, unconditionally and inflexibly).

Edited September 22, 2006 by Raphael

[Lil Red]

wow, way to get the topic off topic there raphael!

[Winchester]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1069179' date='Sep 21 2006, 09:40 AM']
I believe he was.
[/quote]


You believe he was. You believe. That's fantastic.

How long have you been a cop? I mean, since you're of the opinion that based on your vast knowledge of "I believe" and having witnessed the incident first hand, but not having done anything despite your law enforcement skills that enable you to judge the actions of a cop, you must have some great experience.

You are a child. You shift blame to others, exonerate those commiting the act. People like you get good men in trouble because the world is stupid. People like you puke up your opinions in public and politicians run with them. You hurt the image of the people protecting you, who have lives and families and bills to pay.

Go read a book.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1071282' date='Sep 22 2006, 10:22 AM']
Well, as I said, academics come first. I'm a catechetics major, which around here means I have about as much free time as the nursing majors, and a theology major on top of that. They wanted me on the same schedule every week for the whole semester, with no flexibility, and my duties far exceeded the other RAs' duties because I was the only one in my dorm (thus, for instance, I was on call every other weekend instead of once or twice a semester). As for the social life...you're right, it is a low priority, but you try not seeing any of your friends or having any time to be with other people in a social environment for three weeks and tell me if you're having a good time. I'm not talking about bar-hopping on school nights and going out of town on the weekends. The professors strive to assign three hours of homework for every one hour of class. That brings my workload to 72 hours per week for academics alone. Add 20 hours for RA work and you get 92 hours per week of work. Now, considering that you're supposed to sleep at least 8 hours per night, that comes to 148 hours out of every week, leaving 20 free hours. Now, factor in the time for traveling to and from school, Mass, prayers, meals, etc. It's all gone.

Students have to maintain balance. Is social life a priority? No. Do you need it? Yes. We are social creatures. We live in communion. I don't appreciate your dismissive attitude. I was having nervous breakdowns at least once a week.

As a matter of fact, quitting my job was part of a larger plan. God wants me to be a catechist. If I want to be a good one, then I need to be free to do my best in school now while they're training me. If I'm completely incapable of handling the workload and I have no peace or joy, I'm going to be useless in the future as a catechist and now as an RA. I needed to quit because I needed to be able to focus on what God is asking of me. I also needed to quit because I've spent my whole live trying to live up to my parents' expectations and I simply can't do it any longer. I don't need to justify myself to them and I don't need to justify myself to you.

Sometimes parents need to give their kids more credit.

Anyway, that's quite a tangent. My point is that sometimes parents are overbearing, judgmental, and have no idea what their kids are trying to say to them or that their kids are doing what's right.
[/quote]This has gotten way off topic, but it does point to the disparity of opinion when people are committed to their opinion.

So you do school stuff 90 hours a week. Is that worse than working 60-70 hours at a job where you are responsible for other people, take care of a house, be a husband, father, and son to your widowed mother? Life won't be any easier for you than it is right now, you just can't comprehend it. Weeks off at Christmas, spring, and summer... Nobody you are responsible for other than yourself.
Social life? Ask HSMom how much social life she gets or how many hours a day it takes to be a wife, mom, home-maker. How many mornings in a 6 month period can parents slee in, pray, make love with their spouse when kids are in the house needing to be surpervised, fed, socialized with, listened too, counseled...

We all have to multi-task and balance numerous priorities. I would guess your parents are trying to get you to re-align your priorities. Do you HAVE to carry that school load every semester? Can you line up summer work full time? Can you reduce your school load each semester and work part time, including the summer?

Education is a laudable goal, but it's not the end-all and be-all. One of the finest men I've learned some of life's greatest lessons had a 6th grade education. You don't have to have letters after your name to know right from wrong and recognize God's love.

Chill on your 'rents. One thing I've recognized after all these years, my wife & I are an awful lot like my parents and our kids are an awful lot like us. None of us are usually intentionally mean or blockheaded, but we do have different levels of life experience. That's why you'll find your parents will be nicer as grandparents then they were to you and you'll regret and the grief you gave your parents. One of my grandmother's favorite sayings was 'Too soon old, too late smart.'

People have to live with the choices they make. If you get ticked off at a school mate and kick his ass in the lunch room, you have to deal with it. If you are grown up enough to do serious harm, mature enough to consider the circumstances and still choose to commit serious actions with serious consequences, deal with it.

I tell the people who work fro me and my kids the same thing.
90% of learning is learning from mistakes. If you don't screw up, you aren't trying to learn. If you don't deal with the screw up and try to fix it, you won't learn and you will repeat the mistake, making stupidity an ingrained habit.
If you insist on ignoring what others have learned and make the mistake yourself, you are making a commitment to remain ignorant.

(edited for grammar. I've got to stop getting drunk at lunch.)

Edited September 22, 2006 by Anomaly