Im4Him Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Beauty is not objective, it is subjective. What one person thinks is beautiful, another may not. That being said, I've never been to a Tridentine mass, so I cannot tell you which I prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Are you saying then that God Himself could possibly not Be Beautiful?!? True Beauty is as objective as God Himself!! Read the sections on the Catechism that deal with Truth & Beauty. Some things in and of themselves will stir everyone to the realization of beauty and awe - or the Transcendent with which True beauty lies! Sorry dude - but your wrong True Beauty is not subjective. Ask Aquinas also in His Summa Theologica, and Frank Sheed in His "Theology and Sanity". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Beauty is in fact objective. Taste is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Dabu, I think you've been waiting to make this argument all day. You were just looking for someone to suggest that Beauty was subjective. Did you just read about this somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Thank you BLAZEr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Or ask Dabu in his 50 Million posts on the inferiority, at least objectively and aesthetically of the Novus Ordo Missae. Umm, seriously dude, you need to get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im4Him Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 True. Beauty itself is not subjective, what an individual person finds beautiful is. Better? It's been a long day and I'm not expressing myself very well. BTW: I'm not a dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Get a grip!!! How can so many people come to the realization that True Beauty is Subjective?!? It is they that need a grip. To get a grip on the Truth. My poll deals with something that if we can see - will hopefully begin to help ...as Frank Sheed puts it... "To see with Sanity". I think I am right on.... Listen to this quote from Cardinal Ratzinger “The prohibition ... introduced a breach into the history of the liturgy whose consequences could only be tragic,” Ratzinger wrote in his 1997 memoirs. “I am convinced that the crisis in the church that we are experiencing today is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the liturgy.” The true beauty of the Mass has been lost - and a wide and majority of Catholics accept it as the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 lol, I was suggesting that Dabu get a grip. Naw, but I was kidding anyway. I like Dabu, especially his name, which like it or not, just got abbreviated to Dabu, which reminds me of Habu that poor little Indian Elephant that is going to hell . . . lol Anyway, I meant to say, that there have to be OTHER topics to post on . . . I'm sure, there seem to be something like 1,000 of them . . . just keep looking . . . lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 The prohibition Ratzinger is talking about - is the Traditional Latin Mass, and many of the Things that people associate with it (communion at the communion rail, kneeling during the consecration, people and priest facing the same direction, the tabernacle in the sanctuary of the Church etc.) All things Ratzinger deals with in His book "The Spirit and the Liturgy". I think is safe to assume that Ratizinger himself sees these forms as representing true beauty in worship for Catholics - and like many others has lamented there loss - and is saddened by what there loss has brought about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im4Him Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Aloysius, I was actually responding to Dabu calling me a dude...not you. I didn't even realize that you had said "dude" in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 That is why it is important to vote. This is just not a lame duck poll. Please help and vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Dude, you are arguing with the wrong guy. Not only do I study Latin Chant (and Byzantine Chant for that matter), I happen to LOVE the Tridentine Rite. However, I do not think that these discussions are fruitful. I do not think this is the place for them, and I do not wish to see good Catholics fighting with each other over silly things that they cannot and do not have the power to change. ONLY ROME CAN CHANGE THE LITURGY!!! And yes, I happen to agree with His Emminence, I personally think that every parish should have a Tridentine Mass available every Sunday. I also think that we need to do a better job of translating the Latin into English in the Novus Ordo Missae. I think a lot of things. And they are my OPINIONS. I'm sorry, but your question cannot be answered by appealing merely to OBJECTIVE beauty. Why? Because I think that the Manger in Bethlehem is the most beautiful room in the world. This, despite the fact that it was covered with donkey carp and straw and animal stink . . . it has an objective Beauty as well, not aesthetic, but objective based on a historic act that occurred there. Objective Beauty is not confined to that which is Aesthetically pleasing . . . God is Beautiful because he is true, not because he has an Aesthetically Pleasing form . . . Nice try, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 I also do not find your antics amusing. I wish you only saw the real importance of the poll at hand. I am saddened that you would even imply that I might go to Hell. And yet you dare to have as quotes under your name - someone as Holy as St. Faustina. Obviously, you have no Idea what she was about - and the Love for souls she possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabukthumpa Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Aesthetically pleasing - always deals with True Beauty. Your statement needs to be turned around. Aesthetically pleasing is however confined to true Beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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