Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 [quote] As long as you think the Bible is the sole source of truth, you are an idolater. [/quote] That makes absolutely no sense. I suppose you do not have this desire. [size=5] 1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 It makes perfect sense. You think you have the whole truth because you can cram it in between two covers (and two ears). That is just flat out idolatry. Your God is very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) Obviously you believe in the God of all religions and I dare say religious texts, since you are basically seeking to diminish the Bible, saying its just a book. I believe it is Gods Word, obviously you do not. You may believe it holds some truths but that is not the truth. This is a difference between us, that absolutely cannot be reconciled. [size=4] Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[/size] Edited September 17, 2006 by Budge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1065158' date='Sep 17 2006, 02:21 PM'] [size=5] 1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:[/size] [/quote] What the Bible also says about the "milk" stage: [b]Hebrews 5:12-14 (KJV): For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justified Saint Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 No, I never said it was just a book. On the contrary, I specifically said it couldn't fully be understood because it is God's word. That's why there is a need for interpreting the Word and drawing upon the history and traditions of the church. But you don't want anything to do with that, you just want a convenient handbook to tell you all the answers. Again, idolatry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) There are two ideas here. The first is that all truth is contained in the Bible, and that the Bible is the sole source of truth. The other is that everything in the Bible is true, but truth can come from other places than the Bible. Budge subscribes to the first idea, Catholics the second. The first idea is that everything you believe must come from the Bible, because it is the only source of truth on Earth. However, the second idea is the correct one of the two, because it affirms that the Bible is absolute truth, but God can work in other ways than the Bible, and can use other means to convey truth. Mainly, the other way is via His Church. God is not limited to the Bible. He is allowed to do as he pleases in regards to revealing truth. And don't attempt to say that this means we believe other religious texts are true. This is not what I am saying. The Bible is the only book which is absolutely true, because it is the word of God. However, some other texts may have some how stumbled upon some truth. We are allowed to recognize that. That doesn't mean follow it. Just that they too can have some truth, because it is something we have already learned as truth from God. However, to limit God's ability to teach and give us the truth to only the Bible is a logical fallacy. It limits God to a box. Or rather, to pages in a book. Edited September 17, 2006 by fidei defensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 You either have a standard and a guide to who God is or you do not. Catholicism has nothing to test false spirits with, and that is one reason the Catholic church is being led after false Marian apparitions. The departure from scripture as a guide, and men looking to their own authority is reason for the error of the interfaith movement as well. I do not believe other religious texts are inerrant like Gods Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1065220' date='Sep 17 2006, 04:11 PM'] I do not believe other religious texts are inerrant like Gods Word. [/quote] Neither do I, nor does the Catholic Church. However, other texts may have a tiny bit of truth in them. That does not make the texts themselves true, only that portion within them. They may have stumbled upon this truth on their own, and just happened to put it in there, or God may have led them to that truth, so that it may be a method of their eventual conversion. The point to recognizing the truth in other texts is to bring about conversion. If they believe something which is the same, or similar to what we believe, we can use that belief as a talking point to bring them to the one and only true faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 Satan works by mixing truth and lies together. So you think people can be truly converted by doing the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1065231' date='Sep 17 2006, 04:17 PM'] Satan works by mixing truth and lies together. So you think people can be truly converted by doing the same? [/quote] Obviously that is true. The Koran and other religious texts are a mix of truth and lies. However, it is our job as Christians to extract the truth from the lies and lead others to do the same. We must show them the truth in their own belief which corresponds to the truth in Christ, lead them to reject the lies, and help them to come and accept the fullness of truth in the Christian faith. This is what Paul did with the pagans. He used their worship of an unknown god to extract the truth, the truth being that the unknown god was really the True God, the one and only God. But he didn't stop there, and neither should we. He proclaimed Christ, as we should too. However, it is also a matter of prudence to decide when to proclaim. There is work to be done before. You can't run into a room and tell everyone to convert or go to hell. You must help them understand the truth, then share the good news. Edited September 17, 2006 by fidei defensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1065144' date='Sep 17 2006, 03:11 PM'] Why Theyve told you that so youll follow them. Thats what it comes down to. They have you convinced scripture is impossible to GET. I remember thinking the same thing while I was in Catholic school. it is a total lie. As for courses of action. Those can be checked via the bible. Apostles asked Jesus if they could call down pillars of fire on thsoe who refused gospel. Jesus rebuked them. Ie dont call down pillars of fire on unbelievers and go conquer them... Apostles were told to wear a sword while out in the world preaching. Self defense is ok. Theres all sorts of answers like those in the Bible. [/quote] So you use it as your answer book? So you read that apostles wore swords while preaching so you extrapolate its ok to practice self -defense. But that directly contradicts the bible where it says to turn the other cheek. So you are choosing one text over another. In reality you are a magisterium of one, and are picking and choosing like any other protestant. and btw, you keeping harping on issues with obedience? Hebrews 13:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Well, thank God blind obedience is limited to Muslims and Catholics. Thankfully, Evangelicals remain stainless. I guess I haven't gotten the revised Catechism that Budge is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 [quote]Well, thank God blind obedience is limited to Muslims and Catholics. Thankfully, Evangelicals remain stainless.[/quote] We dont believe in infallible men, now do we? And I never claimed perfection for Evangelicals. Im not trapped into excusing all the charlatans, crooks and false teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 Hey there! I don't believe in infallible men, either. I believe that a particular man is protected from teaching error under particular circumstances. I merely made an observation from your sentence. And, dear Bible thumper, I have never excused people. Again, I have the old version of the Catechism, and it doesn't have these lessons you're using to teach so accurately about the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 So you adhere to the old version and not the new? I dont think your church leaders would be happy about you dissing the new, unless youre a Trad or something. [quote] I believe that a particular man is protected from teaching error under particular circumstances.[/quote] an infallible man, even if it only happens rarely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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