On The Uses And Abuses Of Private Judgment

[Justified Saint]

I for one have grown tired with the rather dull and irksome tendency of many a Catholic to put forward an "argument" contra Protestants that almost always includes somewhere the line "Well how do you KNOW that is the correct reading of the Bible?"

This line of reasoning entirely confuses the issue of "private judgment" as I see it. The implication is that the "real" meaning is of course out there and obviously to be found: just ask the Church they have all the answers! This is a confusion of what religion and faith are for they are not a series of scientific and epistemic postulates. Religion is not about epistemic certainty, rather it is about the certainty of faith.

Thus, the critique of Protestantism on the matter of private judgment should center around the inconsistency and contradiction that its position embodies. Protestants claim that the Word of God is self-interpreting and thus they have seriously mishandled Scripture and created it into a gross abstraction. But this is not the same as retorting "you see, they have no sure way of knowing they are right!" since this still confuses epistemology with obedience (i.e. I have faith because I know instead of I have faith therefore I know).

The Protestant and Catholic both start with some form of private judgment, how could they not? (though no judgment or decision is ever "private") The difference is that Protestants have never been weaned from it.

[Eutychus]

Everyone faces the same problem. Just giving them a fancy name like Magic Men ... er Magi Steers....er....Magisterium doesn't give them anymore ability to discern the Word of God than a well trained non-Catholic layman has.

Frankly, if you just look at the Catholic Church world today, the ONLY people with any followings in bible interpretation issues, are EX PROTESTANTS turned Catholic Church like Hahn, Sungenis, Matatics { pre sede } and rest.

The entire Catholic world is SUCKING UP Hahn's "private interpretation" making him a pretty well off fellow.

[u][b]All one has to do is look HERE on Phat, most of the "answers" that you have ginnied up, posted for use against protestants questioning the Catholic Church have numerous bible quotes and materials contained within them....right?

Are they NOT PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS??[/b][/u]

Edited September 17, 2006 by Eutychus

[OLAM Dad]

Private interpretations are fine provided that they don't contradict the teachings of the Magisterium.

By the way, you need to read up on the Magisterium. You seem to think it's magical because of how accurate it is. There is nothing magical about it.

CCC 85 “The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living, teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.”

CCC 86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

[Eutychus]

[quote]By the way, you need to read up on the Magisterium. You seem to think it's magical because of how accurate it is. There is nothing magical about it. [/quote]

I just find it funny, elevate yourself with a fancy title...and impress the rubes is how this sounds to me..

AND.

You got yer ORDINARY MAGISTERIUM

you got your EXTRAORDINARY MAGISTERIUM

You got your TEACHING MAGISTERIUM

You got your AUTHENTIC MAGISTERIUM

You got your SACRED MAGISTERIUM

Seems like the Magi have a group for any need want and desire, doesn't it?

And just TRY and find who is teaching what, and who the PERSONS BEHIND these letters are is all to often hidden behind some elevated ego puffing honorific.

[quote]CCC 86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication, and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”[/quote]

Yeah, all that authority, power, pomp, and puffery.

To date, in the last 2,000 years, this "authority" has actually ONLY definitively expounded on SEVEN verses out the entitre bible.....but man, do they baffle with the word games otherwise.

[img]http://www.lazyboysreststop.com/NCCB_Reply.jpg[/img]

Edited September 17, 2006 by Eutychus

[Budge]

[size=4]seems to me that when Catholics are told private judgement is a bad thing...

this is basically an announcement to check your brain at the door, and an invitation to blind obedience of men especially evil men who want to use and abuse this extreme loyalty and obedience[/size]

{By the way I apply this across the board including to fellow Baptists, there are too many evangelicals who have blind obedience and acceptance of what the govt is doing}

One problem the Muslims have is definitely too much blind obedience to Immans.

[quote]
[b] “Blind obedience” to either government leaders or religious leaders has led to some of the most barbaric and monstrous genocides and holocausts (and “holy” wars) that mankind has ever seen. [/b]This “blind obedience” has been known for centuries as the Roman Catholic doctrine of “the divine rights of kings [and popes]” to rule absolutely. In a nutshell, this Catholic doctrine (which, sadly, as been adopted by many Protestants, Baptists, etc.) dictates that the people must submit to both the “king’s men” and the “church’s men”, no matter how much “evil” the “authorities” may be doing.

Thus, if the “king’s men” or the “church’s men” are torturing you and your family, you are to “submit”, because the “king” and the “church” are ALWAYS right, even divinely right – and it is evil for you to resist them. They go so far as to claim that their “mandate” comes straight from God, yet the Holy Bible in no way supports their false claims.[b] And in the “name of God” these false leaders/shepherds have carried out barbarous crusades, inquisitions, torture, genocide, holocausts, murder and mayhem such as ought not to be named among civilized me[/b]n – the details of which cannot be discussed in front of ladies!


Sadly, this “blind obedience” manifests itself in several ways. First, there are always lots of savage monsters who will “blindly obey” orders from their government and/or church superiors to torture and slaughter innocent people! A classic example of this “Church and State” butchery occurred as recently as the early 1940s in predominantly Roman Catholic Croatia, where the clergy led, orchestrated, and choreographed some of the most savage butchery of any age against helpless, innocent Serb Orthodox Christian peasants – torturing and murdering to the tune of between 600,000 to one million of them!

[b]
Secondly, this “blind obedience” results in a whole lot of people who, while not actually participating in the savagery, know about it and do absolutely NOTHING This occurred during the horrible inquisitions carried out by the Roman Catholic Church. Very few people had the courage to speak out against, much less take action to stop, the butchery. And it has been the same throughout the ages. Unless courageous men and women stand up and oppose tyranny and evil – even when it is ecclesiastical, then tyranny and evil will prevail in any age![/b]
[/quote]
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Messages against people using their private judgement in any religion or church are wrong. [/size]

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One way false leaders in EVERY AREA brainwash people, is to TEACH THEM TO DISTRUST THEIR OWN MINDS.

Every cult, totalitarian govt--remember how Commies put people in the gulag for mental retraining? have used this tactic.
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Are their "intellects" any better?

Is the intellect of the Magisterium any better then yours?

NO.

Millions fall into this satanic trap.


Instead of Gods Word which tells us to search the scriptures and USE our brains....

you have accepted their lie of having the perfect intellects while yours is imperfect.


They got you folks so deluded, you actually think your own mind, supposely lying eyes, cant even show you whats what.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Budge