Well We Never Gave Trent Her Crusade

[Don John of Austria]

Hi guys its been a long time, but after this rukus I felt it obligatory to stop in and check out ol' phatmass.


Anyway. The infallable Ecumenical Council of Trent called for the launching of a Crusade, one which the West was to unfaithful to raise, after the last day or two I am thinking perhaps it is time to have it. If the Christian world will grow a pair and actually fight those who serve demons ( please see Blessed Urban's speech at Clemont before telling me that they do not worship demons) the world would be much better off. They have now started launching attacks agianst Chrsitian churches through out the Middle East, I pray with all sincerity that someone will call for swords about the Cross, still I doubt it will be so.

That said, if the Church where to call would anyone come? In the 19th century the Blessed Pius IX could barely raise 4000 men, I fear we as a faith have become soft and fearful. We do not remember that the Father is a Warrior as well as the Creator, we no longer proclaim " if God is with us, who can stand agianst". I for one don't think there can be peace with the Muslims, for Peace is not lack of war, that is Mans Peace, the Evil Peace, which Christ did not come to bring. We must only accept the Peace of Christ, and that will not come with the Mohommedians.

We should steel ourselves war is coming, weather we like it or not, the only question is will we live with the dishonor of watching our brothers and sisters in Christ murdered and enslaved. What will we tell God when we meet Him Face to face, if we stand by and do nothing.

[Resurrexi]

Deus vult!

[Eutychus]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=57408"][color="#663300"][b]CONTINUE THIS ONE HERE....ALREADY IN PROGRESS[/b][/color][/url]

[Era Might]

The answer to religious violence is not more religious violence. This was the whole point of Pope Benedict's recent remarks.

[quote]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats. To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death".

--Pope Benedict XVI, "[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html"][u]Address at the University of Regensburg[/u][/url]"[/quote]
See also Pope John Paul II's "[url="http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/3/Speech%20by%20Pope%20John%20Paul%20II%20at%20Interreligious%20Meet"][u]Address at the Pontifical Institute of Notre Dame[/u][/url]"

[quote]Each of our religions knows, in some form or another, the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Precious as this rule is as a guide, true love of neighbor goes much further. It is based on the conviction that when we love our neighbor, we are showing our love for God, and when we hurt our neighbor, we offend God. This means that religion is the enemy of exclusion and discrimination, of hatred and rivalry, of violence and conflict. Religion is not, and must not become, an excuse for violence, particularly when religious identity coincides with cultural and ethnic identity. Religion and peace go together! Religious belief and practice cannot be separated from the defense of the image of God in every human being.[/quote]
"They" have not started doing anything. Islam is not a robotic borg. Rather than issue an open call for crusade, visit your local mosque and do something constructive. Open the paths to dialogue, and meet Muslims who manage to live side by side with Christians, not only here in America, but all over the world. Talk to Cardinal Arinze about the Christians and Muslims who live in peace in his native Nigeria.

Edited September 17, 2006 by Era Might

[Eutychus]

[quote] Talk to Cardinal Arinze about the Christians and Muslims who live in peace in his native Nigeria.[/quote]

Goodness man, get out of your parish once in awhile and SEE what is really going on ... even in Nigeria.

This is ONE OF HUNDREDS of such articles...maybe more. And that is ONE Nation. All over the world, wherever the [mod][/mod] are more than 40%, you have these incidents, they loot, burn, torture, kill, and invade. All in the name of the Moon god, Allah.

[quote]Nigerian Muslims protesting caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad attacked Christians and burned churches on Saturday, killing at least 15 people in the deadliest confrontation yet in the whirlwind of Muslim anger over the drawings.
[size=4][color="#990000"]
[b]It was the first major protest to erupt over the issue in Africa's most populous nation. An Associated Press reporter saw mobs of Muslim protesters swarm through the city center with machetes, sticks and iron rods. One group threw a tire around a man, poured gas on him and set him ablaze...

...Thousands of rioters burned 15 churches in Maiduguri [Nigeria] in a three-hour rampage before troops and police reinforcements restored order, Nigerian police spokesman Haz Iwendi said. Iwendi said security forces arrested dozens of people in the city about 1,000 miles northeast of the capital, Lagos.[/b][/color][/size]

Chima Ezeoke, a Christian Maiduguri resident, said protesters attacked and looted shops owned by minority Christians, most of them with origins in the country's south.

[size=4][color="#003300"]"Most of the dead were Christians beaten to death on the streets by the rioters," Ezeoke said. Witnesses said three children and a priest were among those killed..[/color][/size][/quote]

Edited September 17, 2006 by IcePrincessKRS

[XIX]

Two words: Spiritual warfare.

That's not just a wimpy substitute for "real warfare." Spiritual warfare is a very very real war for souls.

[Eutychus]

Go to Saudi Arabia, stand on a street, say Jesus Christ outloud.

You will be in jail within the hour.

[Akalyte]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1064552' date='Sep 16 2006, 09:15 PM']
Hi guys its been a long time, but after this rukus I felt it obligatory to stop in and check out ol' phatmass.
Anyway. The infallable Ecumenical Council of Trent called for the launching of a Crusade, one which the West was to unfaithful to raise, after the last day or two I am thinking perhaps it is time to have it. If the Christian world will grow a pair and actually fight those who serve demons ( please see Blessed Urban's speech at Clemont before telling me that they do not worship demons) the world would be much better off. They have now started launching attacks agianst Chrsitian churches through out the Middle East, I pray with all sincerity that someone will call for swords about the Cross, still I doubt it will be so.

That said, if the Church where to call would anyone come? In the 19th century the Blessed Pius IX could barely raise 4000 men, I fear we as a faith have become soft and fearful. We do not remember that the Father is a Warrior as well as the Creator, we no longer proclaim " if God is with us, who can stand agianst". I for one don't think there can be peace with the Muslims, for Peace is not lack of war, that is Mans Peace, the Evil Peace, which Christ did not come to bring. We must only accept the Peace of Christ, and that will not come with the Mohommedians.

We should steel ourselves war is coming, weather we like it or not, the only question is will we live with the dishonor of watching our brothers and sisters in Christ murdered and enslaved. What will we tell God when we meet Him Face to face, if we stand by and do nothing.
[/quote]


Dude!!! It's so good to see you back!!!

Give me a sword and a shield with a cross on it. I'm ready. I've been ready for a while now!

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064589' date='Sep 16 2006, 10:57 PM']
The answer to religious violence is not more religious violence. This was the whole point of Pope Benedict's recent remarks.
See also Pope John Paul II's "[url="http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2000/3/Speech%20by%20Pope%20John%20Paul%20II%20at%20Interreligious%20Meet"][u]Address at the Pontifical Institute of Notre Dame[/u][/url]"
"They" have not started doing anything. Islam is not a robotic borg. Rather than issue an open call for crusade, visit your local mosque and do something constructive. Open the paths to dialogue, and meet Muslims who manage to live side by side with Christians, not only here in America, but all over the world. Talk to Cardinal Arinze about the Christians and Muslims who live in peace in his native Nigeria.
[/quote]

But if it comes, we have to do something! The Church has done it in the Past! It will be justified!

[Era Might]

The Church does not engage in war.

If a nation is attacked, then there are the principles of just defense to consider. But to say that Christians should rise up in holy war against non-Christians is completely foreign to the mind of the Church.

Violence is a matter of civil security, the administration of which falls to the civil authorities. As far as Christianity goes, we have to be ready to convert through the witness of our faith and our charity. We do not convert with the sword.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]
If a nation is attacked, then there are the principles of just defense to consider. But to say that Christians should rise up in holy war against non-Christians is completely foreign to the mind of the Church. [/quote] oh really?

[quote] Oh, race of Franks, race from across the mountains, race chosen and beloved by Godas shines forth in very many of your works set apart from all nations by the situation of your country, as well as by your catholic faith and the honor of the holy church! To you our discourse is addressed and for you our exhortation is intended. We wish you to know what a grievous cause has led us to Your country, what peril threatening you and all the faithful has brought us.

From the confines of Jerusalem and the city of Constantinople a horrible tale has gone forth and very frequently has been brought to our ears, namely, that a race from the kingdom of the Persians, an accursed race, a race utterly alienated from God, a generation forsooth which has not directed its heart and has not entrusted its spirit to God, has invaded the lands of those Christians and has depopulated them by the sword, pillage and fire; it has led away a part of the captives into its own country, and a part it has destroyed by cruel tortures; it has either entirely destroyed the churches of God or appropriated them for the rites of its own religion. They destroy the altars, after having defiled them with their uncleanness. They circumcise the Christians, and the blood of the circumcision they either spread upon the altars or pour into the vases of the baptismal font. When they wish to torture people by a base death, they perforate their navels, and dragging forth the extremity of the intestines, bind it to a stake; then with flogging they lead the victim around until the viscera having gushed forth the victim falls prostrate upon the ground. Others they bind to a post and pierce with arrows. Others they compel to extend their necks and then, attacking them with naked swords, attempt to cut through the neck with a single blow. What shall I say of the abominable rape of the women? To speak of it is worse than to be silent. The kingdom of the Greeks is now dismembered by them and deprived of territory so vast in extent that it can not be traversed in a march of two months. On whom therefore is the labor of avenging these wrongs and of recovering this territory incumbent, if not upon you? You, upon whom above other nations God has conferred remarkable glory in arms, great courage, bodily activity, and strength to humble the hairy scalp of those who resist you.

Let the deeds of your ancestors move you and incite your minds to manly achievements; the glory and greatness of king Charles the Great, and of his son Louis, and of your other kings, who have destroyed the kingdoms of the pagans, and have extended in these lands the territory of the holy church. Let the holy sepulchre of the Lord our Saviour, which is possessed by unclean nations, especially incite you, and the holy places which are now treated with ignominy and irreverently polluted with their filthiness. Oh, most valiant soldiers and descendants of invincible ancestors, be not degenerate, but recall the valor of your progenitors.

But if you are hindered by love of children, parents and wives, remember what the Lord says in the Gospel, "He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me." "Every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name's sake shall receive an hundredfold and shall inherit everlasting life." Let none of your possessions detain you, no solicitude for your family affairs, since this land which you inhabit, shut in on all sides by the seas and surrounded by the mountain peaks, is too narrow for your large population; nor does it abound in wealth; and it furnishes scarcely food enough for its cultivators. Hence it is that you murder one another, that you wage war, and that frequently you perish by mutual wounds. Let therefore hatred depart from among you, let your quarrels end, let wars cease, and let all dissensions and controversies slumber. Enter upon the road to the Holy Sepulchre; wrest that land from the wicked race, and subject it to yourselves. That land which as the Scripture says "floweth with milk and honey," was given by God into the possession of the children of Israel Jerusalem is the navel of the world; the land is fruitful above others, like another paradise of delights. This the Redeemer of the human race has made illustrious by His advent, has beautified by residence, has consecrated by suffering, has redeemed by death, has glorified by burial. This royal city, therefore, situated at the centre of the world, is now held captive by His enemies, and is in subjection to those who do not know God, to the worship of the heathens. She seeks therefore and desires to be liberated, and does not cease to implore you to come to her aid. From you especially she asks succor, because, as we have already said, God has conferred upon you above all nations great glory in arms. Accordingly undertake this journey for the remission of your sins, with the assurance of the imperishable glory of the kingdom of heaven.

When Pope Urban had said these and very many similar things in his urbane discourse, he so influenced to one purpose the desires of all who were present, that they cried out, "It is the will of God! It is the will of God!" When the venerable Roman pontiff heard that, with eyes uplifted to heaven he gave thanks to God and, with his hand commanding silence, said:

Most beloved brethren, today is manifest in you what the Lord says in the Gospel, "Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them." Unless the Lord God had been present in your spirits, all of you would not have uttered the same cry. For, although the cry issued from numerous mouths, yet the origin of the cry was one. Therefore I say to you that God, who implanted this in your breasts, has drawn it forth from you. Let this then be your war-cry in combats, because this word is given to you by God. When an armed attack is made upon the enemy, let this one cry be raised by all the soldiers of God: It is the will of God! It is the will of God!

And we do not command or advise that the old or feeble, or those unfit for bearing arms, undertake this journey; nor ought women to set out at all, without their husbands or brothers or legal guardians. For such are more of a hindrance than aid, more of a burden than advantage. Let the rich aid the needy; and according to their wealth, let them take with them experienced soldiers. The priests and clerks of any order are not to go without the consent of their bishop; for this journey would profit them nothing if they went without permission of these. Also, it is not fitting that laymen should enter upon the pilgrimage without the blessing of their priests.

Whoever, therefore, shall determine upon this holy pilgrimage and shall make his vow to God to that effect and shall offer himself to Him as a, living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, shall wear the sign of the cross of the Lord on his forehead or on his breast. When,' truly',' having fulfilled his vow be wishes to return, let him place the cross on his back between his shoulders. Such, indeed, by the twofold action will fulfill the precept of the Lord, as He commands in the Gospel, "He that taketh not his cross and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." [/quote]
~The Holy Father Pope Urban II

Edited September 17, 2006 by StThomasMore

[Akalyte]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1064711' date='Sep 17 2006, 12:20 AM']
The Church does not engage in war.

If a nation is attacked, then there are the principles of just defense to consider. But to say that Christians should rise up in holy war against non-Christians is completely foreign to the mind of the Church.

Violence is a matter of civil security, the administration of which falls to the civil authorities. As far as Christianity goes, we have to be ready to convert through the witness of our faith and our charity. We do not convert with the sword.
[/quote]

ah so the church was wrong in the past for defending herself and the holy land? This way of thinking is foreign to the mind of the Church! If the Church didnt fight we would all be muslims right now! Come on man! We need to get our minds out of the sixties and bring them back to the 2000 year history of the Church!

"I came not to bring peace, but the sword"-Christ

the jews fought many times and were justified in doing so. How much more Justified will the Christians be in the face of such evil and non-sense!

Edited September 17, 2006 by Akalyte

[KnightofChrist]

And if the Church is attacked She does not have the right to defend Herself and her children with the "sword"? She must sit back and wait for the "civil authorities" and allow Her children to die in the mean time?

[Akalyte]

If the Holy Father is attacked and Killed..my sword is coming out.

[KnightofChrist]

And I shall justly stand by you my Brother in Christ.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1064724' date='Sep 17 2006, 12:30 AM']
ah so the church was wrong in the past for defending herself and the holy land? This way of thinking is foreign to the mind of the Church! If the Church didnt fight we would all be muslims right now! Come on man! We need to get our minds out of the sixties and bring them back to the 2000 year history of the Church!

"I came not to bring peace, but the sword"-Christ

the jews fought many times and were justified in doing so. How much more Justified will the Christians be in the face of such evil and non-sense!
[/quote]
The Church did not defend herself. In fact, Priests have long been forbidden from engaging in war.

The Bishop of Rome was a civil ruler in Christendom, and as such, had a role in the question of civil defense.

The Bishops of Rome have no desire to confuse their role as Pastor today with the civil sphere. Hence, they are the voice of peace and mediation, not war.

Ancient Israel operated under a different covenant and a different society. They also stoned blasphemers and people who broke the sabbath; things which we have progressed beyond as Christians.

Rather than taking the words of our Blessed Lord out of context to justify belligerence and ill will between Christians and Muslims, we need to listen to the Roman Pontiff, who is the Vicar of Christ.

[quote]Each of our religions knows, in some form or another, the Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Precious as this rule is as a guide, true love of neighbor goes much further. It is based on the conviction that when we love our neighbor, we are showing our love for God, and when we hurt our neighbor, we offend God. This means that religion is the enemy of exclusion and discrimination, of hatred and rivalry, of violence and conflict. Religion is not, and must not become, an excuse for violence, particularly when religious identity coincides with cultural and ethnic identity. Religion and peace go together! Religious belief and practice cannot be separated from the defense of the image of God in every human being.

--Pope John Paul II[/quote]
The Magisterium is a living entity, and it is not our duty to seize upon this and that Papal act and use it against the Church today. Listen to the Pope and the Bishops. They know a lot more than we do.

[quote]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats. To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death".

--Pope Benedict XVI[/quote]