Carthusian Nuns

[HisChild]

Well I haven't seen any showings for it around here. ..

[Chiquitunga]

Aww ... my pictures of the Carthusian nuns aren't showing up today. They looked beautiful yesterday, and were pretty big. Here's where I got them: [url="http://www.angelfire.com/planet/morimond/charterhouse/order5.html"]http://www.angelfire.com/planet/morimond/c...use/order5.html[/url] This is the article from the Catholic Encyclopedia published in 1908, that discribed the life of the nuns at that time. But more recently, they've adopted the same way of life as the monks, with hermitages and as much silence and solitude.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Emile James' post='1154246' date='Jan 1 2007, 11:39 PM']
Glory to Jesus Christ!
well if a Bethlehem Sister or Brother was called to rise in the middle of the night to pray an office, they could, with permission and guidance of superior/spiritual father.especially the ones who live a more eremitic life within the Community. [/quote]Thanks, Emile James, for sharing this! I did not realize that. [quote]They practice a spirit more of that of the Desert Fathers /palestinian lauras, hence more alone time, , such as Matins/ Compline in Solitude at a time that each one is called to in cell., a desert day weekly,etc. There is, like the early Desert Lauras of the east, more flexibility. ( I speak of the Brothers)
This actually was a part of St Brunos foundational inspiration..from what i have read.[/quote]Don't the Carthusians also practice this spirit of the Desert Fathers? Or is there less emphasis on the Eastern Fathers and the Lauras in the Carthusians than the Monastic Family of Bethlehem?

I think it's really great how the Monastic Family of Bethlehem has both Eastern and Western traditions. I really believe that they play a big part in God's plan to unite the Orthodox and Catholic Church (though I'm very well aware of all the Byzantine, and Eastern rite Catholics - but I mean the Eastern Orthodox Church). Sr. Marie D'Air at Les Montsvoirons told me that the Holy Father, JP II at the time, particularly praised their uniting both traditions into their order. [quote]i once met a 'complete' hermit living alone in the south French Alps (Sisteron), and after he told me he used to be at the Grande Chartreuse, i asked why he left, he said" too much time together in the Church, always together" in his exaggerated French manner....so, if one thinks as a Carthusian is not spending enough time in solitude!!! he certainly found his vocation as a hermit in the mountains! [/quote]Wow .. now that's one thing I actually don't feel called to, because I feel such a need to have Superiors and a set way of life, and the support of a community all striving for the same thing together. This is really the spirit of Bethlehem, and the Carthusians I believe.

But particularly the Srs of Bethlehem, which I know much more about, stress the importance of community and that they are not hermits, though they pass the greater amount of their time in the solitude of their hermitages, and have recreation only on Sundays, and some Solemnities of course, like Christmas. Often their signature after letters they've written to me are, "In a deep communion of Love"

But regarding becoming a total recluse, I feel I would never be able to perservere in that state - that's just me. I know I need structure and others to help stay on task and disciplined. Also I would feel safer under obedience to someone other than myself. But to those whom Jesus truly calls to this state, He gives the necessary grace, and they usually still have a spiritual father somewhere whom they can see every once and a while.[quote]By the way has anyone seen 'Into Great Silence"? the art film documentary on the Carthusians? i saw it In italy, but it only seems to stay in the Theatres in Toronto..never makes it out west here...

By his mercy, Emile-James[/quote]I've only just heard of it recently and visited their website .. [url="http://www.diegrossestille.de/english/"]http://www.diegrossestille.de/english/[/url] I see there is a soundtrack too, I wonder what the soundtrack would be like .. [quote]from the film's description

"Silence. Repitition. Rhythm. The film is an austere, next to silent meditation on monastic life in a very pure form. No music except the chants in the monastery, no interviews, no commentaries, no extra material ... "[/quote]



Oh, it must be the chants ..

[TeresaAvila]

OH this is such a beautiful community, How wonderful 6 postulants!! I will keep them and their building project in my prayers!

[quote name='Emile James' post='1153714' date='Jan 1 2007, 03:31 PM']
ooooooooooooooooo, my favourite Cistercian Nuns, in the USA, in Wisconsin....

[url="http://www.nunocist.org/index.html"]http://www.nunocist.org/index.html[/url]
[img]http://www.nunocist.org/img359.jpg[/img]

The present monastery property was assessed six years ago for more than $2 million, said Sr. Roberta. "We have had some inquiries, but since we just do not know when we can break ground, we have let people know that we cannot sell," she said.

With the addition of six postulants in only five months, Sr. Roberta believes the community’s growth is part of God’s plan.

“I look at this (proposed) big monastery, and everybody says, ‘Oh, it’s impossible. It’s too big of a project,’ and I say if God wants that to happen, it’s going to happen. It will happen in his time,” she said. “Every Sister over here knows it’s going to happen, simply because (God) wouldn’t be sending us women for which there is no room if he wasn’t going to provide the room.”

Cistercians on the Web

To learn more about the Valley of Our Lady Monastery and the Cistercian nuns, visit their Web site. To view audio slideshows of the nuns at work and at prayer, go to the Catholic Herald's online slideshows link. [url="http://www.chnonline.org/slideshows/cistercians1/index.html"]http://www.chnonline.org/slideshows/cistercians1/index.html[/url]
[/quote]

[Emile James]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1155721' date='Jan 3 2007, 09:25 PM']
Thanks, Emile James, for sharing this! I did not realize that. Don't the Carthusians also practice this spirit of the Desert Fathers? Or is there less emphasis on the Eastern Fathers and the Lauras in the Carthusians than the Monastic Family of Bethlehem?


i've only just heard of it recently and visited their website .. [url="http://www.diegrossestille.de/english/"]http://www.diegrossestille.de/english/[/url] I see there is a soundtrack too, I wonder what the soundtrack would be like ..
Oh, it must be the chants ..
[/quote]
"Into Great Silence", German/Dutch Trailer
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCKBIPp6eg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCKBIPp6eg[/url]

[url="http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGreatSilence/index.html"]http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGrea...ence/index.html[/url]

and in this pdf file is a very interesting interview, about the film and the Carthusians, from the producer
[url="http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGreatSilence/press_kit.pdf"]http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGrea...e/press_kit.pdf[/url]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

[Chiquitunga]

I just wanted to be sure to post the link to the Sisters of Bethlehem thread here, as they are very much related.[center][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=56995"]Sisters of Bethlehem in Livingston Manor, NY[/url][/center]

[Emile James]

[quote name='Emile James' post='1155948' date='Jan 4 2007, 09:14 AM']
"Into Great Silence", German/Dutch Trailer
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCKBIPp6eg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCKBIPp6eg[/url]

[url="http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGreatSilence/index.html"]http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGrea...ence/index.html[/url]

and in this pdf file is a very interesting interview, about the film and the Carthusians, from the producer
[url="http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGreatSilence/press_kit.pdf"]http://www.mongrelmedia.com/press/IntoGrea...e/press_kit.pdf[/url]

Glory to Jesus Christ!
[/quote]
Great hiking shot, looking down on the Grande Chartreuse (Carthusian Monastery) French Alps..nestled down amongst the mountains

large! pic..
[url="http://lear.inrialpes.fr/people/douze/photo/grenoble4/57.jpg"]http://lear.inrialpes.fr/people/douze/photo/grenoble4/57.jpg[/url]

[Chiquitunga]

Everytime I come here, I always see that at least one of the images I tried to post here from that angelfire site, isn't showing up, so I'm going to try again using [url="http://imageshack.us"]http://imageshack.us[/url] . I love these pictures. I'm pretty sure they're from the monastery in Spain.
[center][img]http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/5918/nun3ajo6.jpg[/img][/center]

[center][img]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4100/nun2km1.jpg[/img][/center]

[HisChild]

Aren't the Euro monasteries so beautiful? Now I just need to learn a foreign language, become fluent and then go apply some place. LOL Is that as vain as choosing a community for its habit? Seriously, though. . .aren't these old brick monasteries and chapels just amazing?

[Chiquitunga]

Edited January 9, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Emile James]

[quote name='HisChild' post='1159475' date='Jan 8 2007, 08:45 PM']
Aren't the Euro monasteries so beautiful? Now I just need to learn a foreign language, become fluent and then go apply some place. LOL Is that as vain as choosing a community for its habit? Seriously, though. . .aren't these old brick monasteries and chapels just amazing?
[/quote]

Glory to Jesus Christ!
yes they are, i have been very fortunate to have lived and travelled through allot of Christian/Monastic Europe....sigh the faith lived in Communities has been there for almost 2,000 years so,,even when things are collapsing,flame dieing out in the local towns one need just grab Holy tradition and blow on the embers... as far as language...all you need are the basics, an aptitude..childlikeness..and jump in to the environment for a minimum 3 months..thats a great way to learn another language.
for me, the singing, Divine Office, prayers sound allot better flowing in Romance-latin tongues.and Slavic...besides the translations from latin are much more faithful..
sigh again..
hmmmm
we should start a religious communities.. ....picture thread!:[b]
Cistercian Nuns[/b] -Abbey Sainte Marie de Boulaur,France (31 Nuns)
[i]i stayed in the guest house off property for a weekend...awesome..i couldn't seem them much, but if i caught a glimpse of a Sisters face . from the side at adoration..always glowing..[/i] of course thee pics are from various sources..
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/bo-schol.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/15-08.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/15-08bis.jpg[/img][img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/oct%20CD%20pto%20038.jpg[/img]
Mother Abbess Blessing Fields and Animals
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/IMG_0297_2.JPG[/img]
ON THIs PAGE click on pics to see the BEAUTIFUL FLOWERS PLACED on the PATHWAY BY THE SISTERS FOR their Corpus Christi Bless. Sacrament PROCESSION .
[url="http://www.boulaur.org/fp/galerie%20photo%2029-5-05.htm"]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/galerie%20photo%2029-5-05.htm[/url]
being a guy, i nevr had any interaction except with an extern, but i could feel the peace, joy..and the singing for the Office wonderful..they have a cd too.
If ther is a way, i will upload an MP3 of it..somewhere?? somehow..
Peace, E-J.
[img]http://www.boulaur.org/fp/images/IMG_0121.JPG[/img]
MORNING CHAPTER MEETING
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/9/69735771_9858eb8670.jpg[/img]
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/69734910_f634914681.jpg[/img]
Of course they have work habits (blue) but not for the haying:)
[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/69733526_fed02f6c27.jpg[/img]
ok ill stop now..

Edited January 9, 2007 by Emile James

[Jennifer]

Beautiful pics... thanks for sharing.....Emile... you are sooooooo clever.

[Chiquitunga]

This is a very specific question, but maybe Emile James would know. Do the Carthusians allow Coffee or other caffeinated drinks, like tea? - as Bethlehem only allows herbal tea ..

Also, are the Carthusians Papally Enclosed? Are the nuns? Do they have visiting parlors and grills? I know they have the walk every week, but I believe that's on monastery grounds. But the long walk once a year, in the book [i]An Infinity of Little Hours[/i], the monks walk outside the monastery grounds .. just wondering ..

Edited January 11, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

Here's something on the Carthusian site, that says the only time the monks will go out is for an occasional walk - [url="http://www.chartreux.org/en/path.htm"]A Carthusian Path[/url].
I'm still not sure if they have Papal Enclosure or not, but they are definitely a very enclosed type of order ..

Here are the Italian nuns at the seashore on one of their walks. :j

[img]http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/1971/seashorecarthusiannunstw1.jpg[/img]

[Emile James]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' date='Jan 11 2007, 01:53 PM' post='1161698']
This is a very specific question, but maybe Emile James would know. Do the Carthusians allow Coffee or other caffeinated drinks, like tea? - as Bethlehem only allows herbal tea ..

Also, are the Carthusians Papally Enclosed? Are the nuns? Do they have visiting parlors and grills? I know they have the walk every week, but I believe that's on monastery grounds. But the long walk once a year, in the book [i]An Infinity of Little Hours[/i], the monks walk outside the monastery grounds .. just wondering ..
[/quote]
-----------------------
Glory to Jesus Christ!
. well, as i understand it ,Papal Enclosure, is only for womens Communities.
Trying to translate the fantastic Italian site on the Nuns, it doesn't seem they are officially Papal Enclosure, yet being a Papal order(as opposed to diocesan),they have strict enclosure due to the constitutions.
ill check more regarding nuns, but since no one can visit the Carthusian Brothers, (except men on vocation discernment week),unless you are the parents, once a year, the idea you are dead to the world.ever phot i have seen, and readings i think that when ones parents visit no grill, but a parlor.
years ago, many many years ago, they didnt have any visitors , even family, ever...a complete break.

[/quote]After solemn profession or perpetual donation, the nuns may receive virginal consecration. It is a solemn rite by which the Church establishes the virgin in a special state of belonging to God. The Carthusian nuns have kept this rite as a concrete sign of the call which the Lord addresses to the Carthusian Order, to lead a life totally consecrated to Him. The offering that the nun makes to God of her virginity within this consecration opens her to a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit.[/quote]

The most complete break, with the society at large, even ones family, and still live in a solitude that is supported by Community, that would only be the Carthusians, though the few Sisters of Bethlehem called to a more eremetic solitude in 'The Upper house" would be the same i think.
The Grande Chartreuse, they do go for that yearly vary far walk and hike, in the movie "Into Great Silence" a wonderful part is when the monks climb waaay up the Chartreuse, and slide down on their feet/backs, in full habit.Definitely off Monastery grounds
the best is the African Novice, tumbling/falling /screaming all the way down.
yet the Grande Chartreuse has a huge.,part of the mountain, boundaries marked by large stones with red crosses and a shape of a church . we thought we would be hiking in the middle of nowhere then suddenly youd come upon one.


coffee...i would be very surprised if the Carthusians did not allow coffee etc, . esp. in Italy.
again its not so much allowance per rules..as a desire to have a well balanced healthy /pure /body, mind, spirit

While knowing the Bethlehem Community is more flexible in each persons personal spiritual growth, i know that while in Italy, the brothers kept me supplied with Italian coffee, without me ever asking, i mean, hey, its italy, and men...no coffee? unthinkable
The French arent so into coffee, and the Community of Bethlehem in General (in fact most every French Monstic community i know) is really into homeopathy and naturapathy, which i do find odd since, because this is in most French culture, we dont have this as normal. all the pharmacies in France have a homeopathy/naturapathy section, and normal MD s prescribe those litte bits of arsenic wrapped up in a sugar ball..
The French Community does see caffiene and alcohol as excitents and not helpful to a balanced mind/body/spirit for contemplation...i, with my one morning cup..tend to agree.

in english is it Community's or Communities? i never get that...
sorry for such a long response..
The walk lasts a whole afternoon, when the monks may be seen walking in pairs through the surrounding countryside. Every 20 minutes or so they swap and pair up with someone else. Once a year they are driven out to some isolated area for a walk lasting all day and including a picnic.

"They are permitted to write four letters per year and may receive letters at the discretion of the Father Prior. Their family can visit once per year for up to three days and relatives can stay at a guest house in the grounds of the monastery.

Apart from such family visits the Carthusians, unlike other monastic Orders, do not normally offer hospitality, and anyone wishing to make a visit must have a valid reason for doing so and needs to apply well in advance for special permission. Men only, of course."....now this refers to ParkMinister, which has a bit more 'relaxed' policies say, then Grande Chartreuse or my personal favourite in [url="http://www.kartuzija-pleterje.si/index_carthusians.htm"]SLOVENIA[/url].
each branch has its own organization and particular government, with a separated General Chapter, presided over by the Prior of Grande Chartreuse who is also the Father General of the Order.

each carthusian house in each Country/Culture will have variations on basic living .

[quote]Nevertheless, the carthusian nun is not a pure hermit. She rejoins her sisters on certain occasions. For that reason, her cell opens onto a cloister leading to community places: the Church, the Chapter room, the library, the refectory. On Sundays and Feast days, the reunions are more frequent and greater emphasis is given to the comfort and joy which the family life offers. On such days, the nuns have lunch together in the refectory, after having sung the office of Sext in the Church. Terce and None are also sung in the Church. Moreover, they have a community recreation for friendly encounter, discussion and fraternal sharing. In addition they meet once a week for a walk of 3-4 hours along mountain paths and countryside. They walk habitually in pairs, thus permitting more personal exchanges. Except for this walk, the nuns remain always within the enclosure, which "creates a space of separation, solitude and silence where one can seek God more freely and where one lives only for Him and Him alone" (Verbi Sponsa 5). These different fraternal encounters favour the unfolding and the union of hearts, sustain mutual affection and help all to live more fruitfully in solitude.[quote]


and here you can read , if you haven't already, [url="http://www.chartreux.org/en/texts.html"]The Statutes of The Order[/url]

Edited January 12, 2007 by Emile James