You Shall Do Penance For Your Sins!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote]But unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.---Luke xiii.3

And God indeed having winked at the times of this ignorance, now declareth unt men, that all should everywhere do penance.Because he hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world in equity, by the man whom he hath appointed; giving faith to all, by raising him up from the dead.---Acts xvii 30,31

Therefore will I judge every man according to his ways, O house of Israel, saith the Lord God. Be converted, and do penace for all your inquities: and iniquity shall not be your ruin.---Ezech. xviii. 30

And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the desert of Judea.And saying: Do penance: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. ----Matt. iii. 1,2

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.---Matt. iv 17

But I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first charity. Be mindful, therefore, from whence thou art fallen : and do penance and do the first works. Or else I come to thee, and will move thy candlestick out of its place, except thou do penace.---Apoc. ii. 4, 5

But I have against thee a few things: because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling-block before the children of Israel, to eat, and to commit fornication:So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaites.In like manner, do penance: if not, I will come to thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.---Apoc. ii 14-16

Be watchful and strengthen the things that remain, which are ready to die. For I find not thy works full before my God.Have in mind therefore in what manner thou hast received and heard: and observe, and do penance.----Apoc. iii. 2,3

Such as I love, rebuke and chastise. Be zealous therefore, and do penance.---Apoc.iii 19

Note: Most protestant Bibles us "Repent" instead or "Penance" let us look at the term "Repent".

Main Entry: 1re·pent Etymology: Middle English, from Old French repentir, from re- + pentir to be sorry, from Latin paenitEre or PENITENT (Merriam-Webster,1999)


So we see "Repent" is English for the Latin "paenitEre" or "PENITENT" now lets Define "PENITENT"


PENITENT Pen"i*tent, n. 1. One under church censure, but admitted to penance; one undergoing penance. (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996,)

The early Chriatians also tell us we still have to do penance for our sinnes to achieve heaven.


+++The Didache (A.D. 70) "Before the baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days. . . . [After becoming a Christian] Do not let your fasts be with the hypocrites. They fast on Monday and Thursday, but you shall fast on Wednesday and Friday" (Didache 7:1, 8:1).

+++Pope Clement I (A.D. 80) "You, therefore, who laid the foundation of the rebellion [in your church], submit to the presbyters and be chastened to repentance, bending your knees in a spirit of humility" (Letter to the Corinthians 57).

+++Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 110)"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3).

Tertullian (A.D. 203)"Likewise, in regard to days of fast, many do not think they should be present at the sacrificial prayers [at the Eucharist], because their fast would be broken if they were to receive the Body of the Lord. Does the Eucharist, then obviate a work devoted to God, or does it bind it more to God? Will not your fast be more solemn if, in addition, you have stood at God's altar? The Body of the Lord having been received and reserved, each point is secured: both the participation in the sacrifice and the discharge of duty [concerning fasting]" (Prayer 19:1-4).

+++Cyprian of Carthage (A.D. 253)"[S]inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of communion" (Letters 9:2).

+++Jerome(A.D. 388) "If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11).

+++Augustine (A.D. 395,)"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see [at the church] doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16).[/quote]

[Budge]

[img]http://shillpages.com/faywray/wrayfl25.jpg[/img]

[center]REMEMBER BEING TOLD THAT WILL BE 10 HAIL MARY's?[/center]

[quote] [font="Arial Black"]"Penance is a wholly different thing from Gospel repentance. Penace is an outward act, repentance is of the heart. Penacne is imposed by a Roman priest, repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit" Penance is supposed to make satisfaction for sin. But nothing that the sinnner can do or suffer can satisfy Divine Justice. Only the Lord Jesus Christ can do that, and He did it once for all when He made atonement on the cross, and completely satisfied the divine law. Rome's error is like that of the heaten religions seeking to win forgiveness or deliverance from sin by self-inflicted, or priest-imposed punishment" Such are the tortures of Buddhist and Hindu devotees"[/font]

"What God desires in the sinner is not a punishment of onesself for sin, but a chance of heart, a real forsaking of sin, shown by a new life of obedience to God's commands.
In short penance is a counterfeit repentance. It is the work of man on his body; true repentance is work of God in the soul.'

The easy way in which the Church of Rome deals with sin is seen in this doctrine of penance. She does not require genuine repentance and sorrow for sin, or any genuine purpose to turn from it, but accepts as a substitute, an act of alliegance to the church, and the penitent's fear of punishment"[/quote]

A VERY VERY bad translation...

[quote]But unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish.---Luke xiii.3[/quote]

This is what my Bible says...

[size=4]Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye [u]repent, [/u]ye shall all likewise perish.[/size]

Edited September 15, 2006 by Budge

[Mateo el Feo]

What kind of a priest would make a woman play the harp for penance? Look at the suffering in her eyes!
[img]http://www.shillpages.com/faywray/wrayfl14.jpg[/img]
I'd much rather say 10 Hail Mary's!

[Budge]

Dont know..hehehehe

Actually Catholic penance is EASY, Go say your 20 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers, compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness.

True repentance leads to victory over sin with God helping a person to overcome it, while the system of Catholic confession and penance, leads one into bondage and repeated sin.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063375' date='Sep 15 2006, 11:06 AM']
Dont know..hehehehe

Actually Catholic penance is EASY, Go say your 20 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers, compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness.

True repentance leads to victory over sin with God helping a person to overcome it, while the system of Catholic confession and penance, leads one into bondage and repeated sin.
[/quote]
You obviously have never been to confession. Going to confession is taking your sins to God, with the advantage of God's rep counseling, consoling and admonishing you for them. We actually know our sins are forgiven, you can only hope. It takes guts to go to confession.

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
KJV

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063375' date='Sep 15 2006, 11:06 AM']Dont know..hehehehe

Actually Catholic penance is EASY, Go say your 20 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers, compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness.[/quote]This isn't an either/or. When I make an act of penance, I don't make it in the place of true repentance. I hope you can take my word on this.

[quote name='Budge' post='1063375' date='Sep 15 2006, 11:06 AM']True repentance leads to victory over sin with God helping a person to overcome it, while the system of Catholic confession and penance, leads one into bondage and repeated sin.[/quote]I fail to see how sacramental confession actually causes repeated sin, as compared with the alternative without confession. Maybe you could explain that. To me, that's like saying that regular bathing makes our bodies dirty. Confession has always been a great source of grace for me, and an opportunity for our souls to be made "as white as snow" by Our Lord.

As a little side note, I've been to an evangelical meeting in which an ex-Catholic speaker gives the same scripted story about how confession causes repeated sin. The crowd really bought the story; but to characterize Catholics as just going through the motions is just as disingenuous as me accusing people who say "I accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior" are just reciting a few words to get their ticket to heaven. Do you see how this is unfair?

Penance is just a part of our road to reconciliation.

When we are spiritually sick and need healing, we present ourselves to the Lord for forgiveness. Just like those who were healed physically by Our Lord ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke17.htm#v14"]cf Luke 17:14[/url]), we who are healed spiritually by Our Lord are asked to present ourselves to the priests. Using the analogy, no one would accuse these men of not having true faith when they did what they were told by Our Lord and presented themselves to the priests.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063375' date='Sep 15 2006, 10:06 AM']
Dont know..hehehehe

Actually Catholic penance is EASY, Go say your 20 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers, compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness.

True repentance leads to victory over sin with God helping a person to overcome it, while the system of Catholic confession and penance, leads one into bondage and repeated sin.
[/quote]

Like Mateo el Feo said...

The protestant 'penance' is EASY. In fact it doesn't even exist. Simply 'go say your sinners prayer compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness' Sometimes they don't even say the sinners prayer, you just listen to the preacher say it and BAM you are saved. And thankfully this type of salvation is so powerful, that you don't ever have to worry about any more sinning in your life, it covers it all. You don't even have to be repentant in the future if you commit a sin, its all covered by your one time 'sinners prayer'

Boy that would be great! Too bad the Catholic Church actually follows Christ's teachings and its actually a little harder than that.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063375' date='Sep 15 2006, 10:06 AM']
Dont know..hehehehe

Actually Catholic penance is EASY, Go say your 20 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers, compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness.

True repentance leads to victory over sin with God helping a person to overcome it, while the system of Catholic confession and penance, leads one into bondage and repeated sin.
[/quote]

so, you are saying we shouldn't go to confession because it ALWAYS leads us to more sin? that sounds questionable and not very thought out.

[quote name='rkwright' post='1063418' date='Sep 15 2006, 11:19 AM']
Like Mateo el Feo said...

The protestant 'penance' is EASY. In fact it doesn't even exist. Simply 'go say your sinners prayer compared to true repentance where one takes their sin before God, and confesses to Him asking for His forgiveness' Sometimes they don't even say the sinners prayer, you just listen to the preacher say it and BAM you are saved. And thankfully this type of salvation is so powerful, that you don't ever have to worry about any more sinning in your life, it covers it all. You don't even have to be repentant in the future if you commit a sin, its all covered by your one time 'sinners prayer'

Boy that would be great! Too bad the Catholic Church actually follows Christ's teachings and its actually a little harder than that.
[/quote]

i agree with my fellow texan here. i mean, all protastants have to do is say "i give my life to the lord. hallelujah i'm saved!!!" and next thing you know they think they can fall over drunk!

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063352' date='Sep 15 2006, 08:42 AM']
[center]REMEMBER BEING TOLD THAT WILL BE 10 HAIL MARY's?[/center][/quote]

More and more you seem to be nothing more than a bully, but I recall "being told" to volunteer someplace that helps the needy, or asking for forgiveness and doing something to help out the one I've sinned against.


[quote name='Budge' post='1063352' date='Sep 15 2006, 08:42 AM']
A VERY VERY bad translation...
[size=4]Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye [u]repent, [/u]ye shall all likewise perish.[/size]
[/quote]


Again, what the [u]Complete[/u] Holy Bible says...
[quote][size=4]No, I say to you: but unless you shall do [u]penance[/u], you shall all likewise perish.[/size]
[/quote]



Perhaps you missed it...

[quote]Note: Most protestant Bibles us "Repent" instead or "Penance" let us look at the term "Repent".

Main Entry: 1re·pent Etymology: Middle English, from Old French repentir, from re- + pentir to be sorry, from Latin paenitEre or PENITENT (Merriam-Webster,1999)


[b][color="#FF0000"]So we see "Repent" is English for the Latin "paenitEre" or "PENITENT" now lets Define "PENITENT"[/color][/b]


PENITENT Pen"i*tent, n. 1. One under church censure, but admitted to penance; one undergoing penance. (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996,)[/quote]

[Guest history&faith]

If I offered to play the harp for penance, I think Father might turn me down.

Edited September 16, 2006 by history&faith

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063352' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:42 AM']

[center]REMEMBER BEING TOLD THAT WILL BE 10 HAIL MARY's?[/center]


[/quote]

Actually I have NEVER been given the penance of ANY Hail Mary's, usually it is Our Fathers , Once I had to go to the person and aplogize . And last time I was at confession I was given the penance of praying the Liturgy of the Hours for a week.

These things helped me reconcile my life to God, and helped me in my conversion away from sin. Confession is about the status of the heart, not about works. Penance is about the status of the heart not about just doing it.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Once for my penance, I was not allowed to talk to someone for a week. It was a weird situation, but it was a blessing.

[heavenseeker]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' post='1064730' date='Sep 17 2006, 12:33 AM']
Once for my penance, I was not allowed to talk to someone for a week. It was a weird situation, but it was a blessing.
[/quote]
that would be weird.