The City That Sits On Seven Hills.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063831' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:13 PM']
Yes, I did.

And here is why....
[url="http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Cults/The%20Roman%20Catholic%20Church/forged_documents_and_papal_power.htm#3"]DOCUMENT ONE[/url]
Given the MASSIVE level of forgeries, today it is almost impossible to have much faith in any of the so called letters that were entrusted to those forgers in Rome.
[/quote]


Amazing is it not? When you believe Early Church writings match your beliefs, you use them, when they do not they become "forgeries" and can not be trusted. Tell us which one of your two sides should we choose?

Offer proof that the documents that Socrates has shown are forgeries, [color="#990000"]you can not because they are not.[/color] You stand defeated, yet again.

[Eutychus]

[quote]Amazing is it not? When you believe Early Church writings match your beliefs, you use them, when they do not they become "forgeries" and can not be trusted. Tell us which one of your two sides should we choose? [/quote]

Go with trusting none of them, that is the safe bet.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063844' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:37 PM']
Go with trusting none of them, that is the safe bet.
[/quote]

What should we go with not trusting? Early Church Writings, which all Christian Churches trust and use in some way? Or your ever changing opinion?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063844' date='Sep 15 2006, 11:37 PM']Go with trusting none of them, that is the safe bet.[/quote]With an attitude like this, it's a wonder that you trust the early Church writings which make up the New Testament.

[Eutychus]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1063876' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:27 PM']
With an attitude like this, it's a wonder that you trust the early Church writings which make up the New Testament.
[/quote]

A concept that is way beyond your pay grade currently is the hepatic structures within scripture. Once understood in it's complete depth, you can verify fairly rapidly if the Holy Spirit inspired a book or not. Fascinating study. Apparently God put in "code verifiers" that today cannot even be duplicated with the most advanced computing systems.

If anyone is mathematically inclined, likes to delve deeply into the sub structure of scripture and is SERIOUS about verification issues...this is well worth the time and effort to explore.

[url="http://www.wordworx.co.nz/panin.html"][b]BIBLE VERIFICATION WITH HEPATIC UNDERPINNINGS ~ GOD's CODE THAT PROVES HUMANS DID NOT INSPIRE THE BIBLE.[/b][/url]

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

I notice that the article you cited shows the Apochrypha as divinely inspired. Does that mean you are going to Follow the Canon of the Apostles? I can send you a new Bible if you don't have one. (seriously, I'm not trying to be snippy or anything)

[Eutychus]

I noticed that one too.

To date, none of the readings have applied the Hepatic tests to the apocraphal writings, that would be interesing indeed.

By the way, I have read them all, they are a fun read for the most part, now if they are scripture....that is another matter.

I would like to have the Book of Enoch elevated some, and Jubilees too, as they are mentioned or strongly alluded to by Peter Jude and Jesus. And one cannot fully grasp the implications of Noah's flood, Joshua's directive to slaughter ALL the inhabitants of the promised land, or for that matter marian apparitions and UFO's without those understandings.

THAT will get everyone going....but prior to Augustine, MY understanding of Nephilim WAS ACTUALLY the Catholic Church's too, until they merged with political Rome and the understandings were changed for obvious reasons.

Best.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

So if the apocraphal writings DID show the numerical consistency of the Hepatic tests, Would you swich scripture?

[Oik]

Eutychus,

Numbers are abstractions. Granted, there was a great deal of interest in numerology in the Catholic Church at one time. Are you seriously suggesting that there is some secret knowledge to be had? This whole idea of a secret knowledge through a secret code seems to me to be a revival of gnosticism.

Really, I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying numbers are God or that creation is arranged according to numbers?

[Eutychus]

[quote]So if the apocraphal writings DID show the numerical consistency of the Hepatic tests, Would you swich scripture? [/quote]

Frankly, if they did, I would have to really give that option an open ended qualified yes.

[Mateo el Feo]

OK, so you use numerology to prove inspiration...how Biblical.

BTW, why do they call it "Hepatic"? What does numerology have to do with the liver?

[Eutychus]

[quote]BTW, why do they call it "Hepatic"? What does numerology have to do with the liver?[/quote]

Here is a little trick I have learned....

Actually READ the links if you don't understand something. And NO, you won't find this in the diocesan bulletin ever either, nor the Readers Digest Bible in the pew this sunday.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1064490' date='Sep 16 2006, 09:10 PM']
Here is a little trick I have learned....

Actually READ the links if you don't understand something. And NO, you won't find this in the diocesan bulletin ever either, nor the Readers Digest Bible in the pew this sunday.
[/quote]If you can find the word "Hepatic" on the page you linked to, you might have a point. I'll ask again: Why do they call it "Hepatic"?

Another statement of mine could easily have been a question, so I'll re-phrase it. Where in the Holy Bible does it say that we should use numerology to verify its authenticity?

[Winchester]

It's in the kabballa!

Tree of Life!

The Sephiroths!

Stupid Red Bracelet Madonna Wears!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063831' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:13 PM']
Yes, I did.

And here is why....
[url="http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Cults/The%20Roman%20Catholic%20Church/forged_documents_and_papal_power.htm#3"]DOCUMENT ONE[/url]
Given the MASSIVE level of forgeries, today it is almost impossible to have much faith in any of the so called letters that were entrusted to those forgers in Rome.
[/quote]
If you read the articles I linked you, you would see that nowhere was the so-called "Donation of Constantine" listed as a source. The Donation of Constantine has absolutely nothing to do with any of the quotes from the Early Church Fathers, which are considered genuine even by most atheists.
The fact that the "Donation" was a forgery has absolutely no bearing on the authenticity of the quotes from the Church Fathers which you so blithely dismiss.
Until you can bring forth specific compelling evidence than any one of these sources used is fake, you have no case.

To simply dismiss the entirety of recorded Christian writings from the first several centuries of the Church as phony, based on an unrelated 8th century forgery concerning land rights, is beyond absurd.
By that standard, we must reject absolutely all ancient records.

And the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries have certainly seen their share of hoaxes and forgeries. Does this mean we should dismiss the authenticity of absolutely everything written during this time too?

Way to conveniently dismiss all of recorded early Christian writing simply because it happens to contradict own opinions (for which you have produced no historical evidence whatsoever)!

But if you feel compelled to dismiss all of the Church Fathers, three of the articles I cited were based on evidence from Scripture alone, with no reference to the Fathers' writings. (And which you have also failed to refute).


[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063902' date='Sep 15 2006, 10:51 PM']
A concept that is way beyond your pay grade currently is the hepatic structures within scripture. Once understood in it's complete depth, you can verify fairly rapidly if the Holy Spirit inspired a book or not. Fascinating study. Apparently God put in "code verifiers" that today cannot even be duplicated with the most advanced computing systems.

If anyone is mathematically inclined, likes to delve deeply into the sub structure of scripture and is SERIOUS about verification issues...this is well worth the time and effort to explore.

[url="http://www.wordworx.co.nz/panin.html"][b]BIBLE VERIFICATION WITH HEPATIC UNDERPINNINGS ~ GOD's CODE THAT PROVES HUMANS DID NOT INSPIRE THE BIBLE.[/b][/url]
[/quote]
So we are to determine which writings are inspired by [b]numerology[/b] and [b]secret codes[/b]?
Where's it say[i] [b]that[/b][/i] in the Bible?

Where do we get our "Eutychus Decoder Rings" to uncover the truth?