The City That Sits On Seven Hills.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote]The City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an eighth century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify. If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives. The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One], the middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two], the highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13). On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name), then the "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five] and then to the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six]. And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new "Mount Zion." This makes "Seven Hills" in all.
[/quote]


The Harlot is Jerusalem? Perhaps...

[Eutychus]

Desperate huh?

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia online admits that the "City that sits on seven hills" of Revelation is Rome.

[quote].......other cities are, but only Rome meets all the criteria, including being known as Babylon. Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms that Rome was known as Babylon and cites I Peter 5:13.1 The Catholic Encyclopedia states, "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined."2[/quote]

The other qualifiers such when added to the seven hills VERY clearly identifies the Woman riding the beast. And as Pogo was known to say "I have met the enemy, and it is we!"

[url="http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/150.city7hills.html"]MORE INFO[/url]

[Paladin]

There's no lack of interpretations on Revelation. It's probably Jersualem or Rome. If it's Rome, it's pagan Rome and not the Vatican. Rome was built on seven hills:
Aventinus (Aventine)
Caelius (Caelian)
Capitolium (Capitoline)
Esquiliae (Esquiline)
Palatium (Palatine)
Quirinalis (Quirinal)
Viminalis (Viminal)
Note that none of these is Vatican Hill. Vatican Hill sits on the other side of the Tiber and wasn't used until the late empire, and even then it was just farmland. A 1st century writer like St. John would have made a distinction between "city on seven hills" and "city on that hill over the river".

[Eutychus]

[quote]Note that none of these is Vatican Hill. Vatican Hill sits on the other side of the Tiber and wasn't used until the late empire, and even then it was just farmland. A 1st century writer like St. John would have made a distinction between "city on seven hills" and "city on that hill over the river". [/quote]

Sigh...it gets SO TIRESOME teaching Roman Catholics basic FACTS about their denomination.

ONE

Where is the SEAT of the BISHOP OF ROME?

The Vatican? NO.

Ooops, whaddya mean it is not the Vatican, the stunned Catholic yammers....

To which, the well versed EX Catholic delves into his "improperly Catechised mind" and dredges out the FACT, that OFFICIALLY the Pope is the Bishop of Rome, thereby deriving his titles and power. And OFFICALLY his " *SEAT* " { sede } is not the Vatican, but rather St John's in Lateran, the historic and STILL official home of the man who happens to LIVE over the Tiber at the VAtican, because the digs are better over there. His POWER and RIGHTS however still are domecilled at St. Johns in Lateran.

And St. Johns sits directly AT the base of one of the SEVEN HILLS of historic Rome, the Capitaline.

[quote]Lateran Church

[img]http://biblelight.net/Lateran-PiusXI.jpg[/img]

Officially, the Church of our Most Holy Savior, called St. John Lateran, is the Cathedral of the bishop of Rome, the pope. It is considered the mother church of the Christian world. The basilica, part of a donation of the Laterani family, was presented to the Church in 311. It is the oldest of the Christian basilicas and from historic times was known as Constantine's basilica.

Source: The Catholic Encyclopedia, edited by Robert C. Broderick, Imprimatur of the Most Reverend William E. Cousins, Archbishop of Milwaukee, Nihil Obstat of the Reverend Richard J. Sklba, published by Thomas Nelson Publishers, copyright 1976, pages 98, 340.[/quote]

[img]http://biblelight.net/map-of-rome.gif[/img]

So there.

Another lesson on the reality of the Catholic Church given by an "Improperly Catechised Ex-Catholic."

[homeschoolmom]

So, then if it's at the base, it's not actually ON the hill... is that what you're saying?

[Eutychus]

Historically the Pope rules over all of Rome. And this is MYSTERY BABYLON { ergo: spiritual not physically } and to this very day, the Pope rules over Rome which is just about totally { nominally in practice } Catholic Italy and Rome.

[quote]Re 17:9

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.[/quote]

Note the qualifier:

[quote]And here is the mind which hath wisdom.[/quote]

Essentially Jesus is saying you need to put your thinking caps on here. And when one does, with all the other qualifer's in the passages, it is perfectly obvious, that the Catholic Church meets every single qualifier of Revelation 17 and 18, thereby identifying itself as the Woman riding the Beast.

[Paladin]

A few things.

1) The Pope does not [i]rule[/i] Rome anymore than the Archbishop of Canterbury rules Canterbury or England. The Pope is the head of the Church. Vatican City has a governor who is not the Pope. Italy has a president who has referred to himself as "the Jesus Christ of politics," to the Pope's chagrin.

2) It is noted that the whore is has drunk "the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Who are these martyrs? You could argue that they're the blood of Protestants burned at the stake by the travesty of the Inquisitions. These numbered in the hundreds, maybe a thousand. You could also argue that they refer to the martyrs of the Roman persecutions (Diocletian, Nero, Marcus Aurelius, and others). They slaughtered in the thousands. Number crunching would seem to lean toward pagan Rome.

3) The angel notes the whore "has dominion over the kings of the earth." King Henry VIII established the Angelican church in England. The Pope would rather he hadn't. Mussolini took control of the Italian government and forced the Vatican into silence about politics, which the Pope wasn't a fan of. The United States went to war in Iraq against the Pope's urging. Catholics priests and bishops are arrested and imprisoned today in China, which I would imagine the Pope distresses over. So... which kings are we talking about? The Church has pretty limited political authority even among its members. There aren't many (if any) earthly kings who obey the Pope. Now pagan Rome, her empire stretched from North Africa to England, from Iberia to Asia Minor. The Pharohs were Roman. King Herod served the Roman Empire. So if you go with that whole kings thing, it leans toward heathen Rome.

4) St. John describes the whore as wearing robes of red and purple. The colors of Catholic vestments, right? Well, not exactly. Yes, there are red vestments for martyrs' feasts, Pentecost, and Good Friday. And purple is worn during Advent and Lent. But there are also green, pink, gold, and predominantely white. Actually, [i]all[/i] priests wear white. The word "alb" comes from the Latin "albus", white. All the red and purple account for a very small percentage of the liturgical year. So what priests wear red and purple? Purple is the royal color of Rome, worn by the Senate and the Emperor. The legions use red. The Old Testament also notes that God ordered priests to use crimson and purple vestments in Exodus 28:4–8, 15, 33, 39:1–8, 24, 29; and also Leviticus 14:4, 6, 49–52; and again in Numbers 19:6. That's a lot of red and purple.

5) The "hills". The Greek word [i]oros[/i] is used, which is usually translated as mountains. In Biblical symbology, mountains often refer to kingdoms (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8–21). Perhaps the whore rules over seven kingdoms and not mountains. Seven is also a Biblical number for completeness; perhaps she reigns over all the nations of the world. If we do translate [i]oros[/i] as mountains, that leaves us with a number of choices: Edinburgh, Lisbon, Jerusalem, Rome, to name a few. We can presumably rule out the first two, but Jerusalem and pagan Rome are still a possibilities as noted above.

So the evidence tends to lean more toward pagan Rome and apostate Jerusalem. There's really not a lot there pointing at the Vatican.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1062532' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:02 AM']
So, then if it's at the base, it's not actually ON the hill... is that what you're saying?
[/quote]You really know how to ruin a good conspiracy theory. Eutychus was on a roll, too!

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1062542' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:18 AM']...it is perfectly obvious...[/quote]Yes, Pentecostal teachings are all perfectly obvious. LOL.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[Eutychus]

[quote]2) It is noted that the whore is has drunk "the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Who are these martyrs? You could argue that they're the blood of Protestants burned at the stake by the travesty of the Inquisitions. [u]These numbered in the hundreds, maybe a thousand.[/u] [/quote]

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING here, either that or you are just about the most brainwashed lemming that ever fell off the truck....

Seriously, where are you getting your education, at the Joseph Goebblels school of mind control, and Catholic revisionism?

I will pick out only TWO, only 2, events, and these TWO ALONE. will show you just how blind stupid that statement is.

One, the Saint Bartholowmews Day Massacre in Paris France.

In ONE WEEK, the Catholic Church lured Protestants into relaxing their guard and while under the protection of the church, the church turned on them, and SLAUGHTERED ... over 100,000 innocent people, in ONE WEEK, in one nation, France.

[url="http://www.reformation.org/gregory_medal1.jpg"]THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF ST BARTHOLOWMENS SLAUGHTER BY THE Catholic Church[/url]

[img]http://www.reformation.org/gregory_medal1.jpg[/img]
Medal struck by Emperor Gregory XIII (1572-85) to commemorate the slaughter of over 100,000 French Christians.

[url="http://www.reformation.org/bart.html"]http://www.reformation.org/bart.html[/url]

The Hussite Wars. Jan Huss was a great christian and a PRIEST, he started preaching from the bible....after being offered "SAFE PASSAGE" to meet with the Catholic Church, he was arrested {typical, see the lies above in the first event too } and burned at the stake. In revulsion, the entire nation of Bohemia went to war against the church, at a cost of over 100,000 lives, trying to obtain freedom from the pandering papacy, the were defeated, but not forgotten...this is before Luther was even born.

[img]http://www.friedhelmschneidewind.de/hus_01.jpg[/img]

[url="http://www.worshiplyrics.org/preachers/huss.htm"]For those that do not know who Father Huss was, click here[/url]

You say NO MORE THAN, 1,000 in ALL the actions the Catholic Church engaged in? Hardly. Try over a million in Europe alone with all the purges, inquisitons, thuggery, buggery, and bastards vying for the chair in Rome.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Eutychus

[Akalyte]

The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five occurrences of this word in the New Testament, only three are rendered "hill" by the King James Version. The remaining sixty-two are translated as "mountain" or "mount." Modern Bibles have similar ratios. If the passage states that the Whore sits on "seven mountains," it could refer to anything. Mountains are common biblical symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8–21). The Whore’s seven mountains might be seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with which she has something in common.


Jerusalem, however, is built on seven mountains: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah. There are even Psalms about them, "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever." {Psalms 125:2)

Now, what does Revelation say about the Great Whore? Look at the following verses:

"How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers."

"For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot."

"They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD. Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed."

"But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them."

OK, so I tricked you. Those verses aren't from Revelation; they are Isaiah 1:21, Jeremiah 2:20, Jeremiah 3:1-3, and Ezekiel 16:15-18 respectively. And the identity of the harlot? It is Jerusalem.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Akalyte

[Eutychus]

Given that EVERYONE knew the "motto of Rome then" was the "City on Seven Hills" .... you might have a chance here.

That motto was over 500 years old when God gave Jesus the information, that Jesus gave to John, who gave it to us....and the Catholic Church promptly lost it.

Nice try however, but given the HORROR that proper exegesis of Revelation 17 and 18 brings to a Roman Catholic, I can understand the desperate need to shift the emphasis, and revise history.

After all, just who wants to be in the church of the Woman Riding the Beast?

Edited September 14, 2006 by Eutychus

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1062808' date='Sep 14 2006, 05:27 PM']You say NO MORE THAN, 1,000 in ALL the actions the Catholic Church engaged in? Hardly. Try over a million in Europe alone with all the purges, inquisitons, thuggery, buggery, and bastards vying for the chair in Rome.[/quote]There must be some secret school where they teach protestants how to talk like Jack Chick.

"Thuggery, buggery, carpentry, drudgery..." Blah, blah, blah, make sure you rhyme. Appeal to emotions, not reason.

In contrast to the discredited anti-Catholic propoganda that exagerated the various inquisitions, we Catholics actually have the names of many martyrs who were killed by various protestant groups.

[Akalyte]

Babylon - Jerusalem



In Revelation we find references to both Heavenly Jerusalem, and Babylon Jerusalem, which represent the two paths for mankind.

The Book of Revelation is highly symbolic. So, it is best for a person to familiarize oneself with the rest of Sacred Scriptures, the Bible, because it is there that Saint John would be able to draw upon meanings that he knew his readers would be able to pick up on. These clues clearly point to Babylon as being a code name for the corrupt city of Jerusalem, possibly just before 70 AD. Those who contend that Babylon is Rome must ignore all the Biblical evidence to the contrary and interject non-biblical suppositions which are usually based on preconceived notions.



SEVEN HILLS



Revelation 17:9-10 “Here is a clue for one who has wisdom. The seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. They also represent seven kings: five have already fallen, one still lives, and the last has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a short while.”

Some have tried to claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon by pointing out that Rome has been referred to as a city on seven hills. The Seven Hills of Rome are; the Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, and the Caelian Hill. However, Saint Peter’s Basilica was built on Vatican Hill, Collis Vaticanus, which is on the other side of the Tiber River and is not one of these Seven Hills. St. Peter Basilica’s high altar was built directly on top of Saint Peter’s grave which was outside of the city and across the river. [See the book The Bones of St. Peter by John Evangelist Walsh]

The reference to the seven hills does fit in regards to Jerusalem.

Jerusalem was a large city spreading beyond the walls of the fort and onto the seven hills there during the time of Jesus and the Apostles. It’s seven hills are; 1.) Mount Gared; 2.) Mount Goath; 3.) Mount Acra; 4.) Mount Bezetha; 5.) Mount Moriah; 6.) Mount Ophel; 7.) Mount Zion. Sometimes, some will substitute the first four with the Mount of Olives, Mount of Offence, Mount of Evil Counsel, and Mount Calvary.

Mount Calvary is presently leveled for the most part. It was a major quarry that was used for the building of the city. As the quarrymen cut into the stone layer by layer they discovered a section that was flawed. A crack in that section made it unusable so they cut around it. As they cut and cleared away the stone slabs from around the flawed section it left an outcropping rising thirty feet from the floor of the quarry to where the top of the hill had once been. It was into this flawed crack that the Roman’s placed the upright beam of the cross of the criminals that they crucified to place fear into their subjects. And it was here that our Savior gave his life for our salvation.


CODE NAME



Revelation 17:5-6
"On her forehead was written a name, which is a mystery, ‘Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and of the abominations of the earth.’ I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus. When I saw her I was greatly amazed."

Babylon was a code name, a "mystery." Compare how Jerusalem is referred to similar code names such as Sodom, Gomorrah, and Egypt. All of these, Sodom, Gomorrah, Egypt, and Babylon are all notorious enemies of God’s people.

Isaiah 1: 1, 9-10
"The vision which Isaiah, son of Amoz, had concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
…9 Unless the LORD of hosts had left us a scanty remnant, We had become as Sodom, we should be like Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, princes of Sodom! Listen to the instruction of our God, people of Gomorrah !"

Moses warns the Jews how God will punish them and destroy their land if they forsake the covenant.

Deuteronomy 29: 22-24
"…all its soil being nothing but sulphur and salt, a burnt-out waste, unsown and unfruitful, without a blade of grass, destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in his furious wrath— they and all the nations will ask, ‘Why has the LORD dealt thus with this land? Why this fierce outburst of wrath?’ And the answer will be, ‘Because they forsook the covenant which the LORD, the God of their fathers, had made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt…"

Jeremiah 23:14
"But among Jerusalem’s prophets I saw deeds still more shocking: Adultery, living in lies, siding with the wicked, so that no one turns from evil; To me they are all like Sodom, its citizens like Gomorrah."

Romans 9:27-29
"And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, ‘Though the number of the Israelites were like the sand of the sea, only a remnant will be saved; for decisively and quickly will the Lord execute sentence upon the earth.’ And as Isaiah predicted: ‘Unless the Lord of hosts had left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom
and have been made like Gomorrah.’ " NAB

John in his Book of Revelation continues this use of code names for the "great city." He is using symbolism to refer to people who had betrayed God’s people.

Revelation 11:8
"Their corpses will lie in the main street of the great city, which has the symbolic names ‘Sodom’ and ‘Egypt,’ where indeed their Lord was crucified."

This passage in Revelation 11: 8 is most important because it clues us in as to where this "great city" is. It is "where indeed their Lord was crucified." It is Jerusalem.

DESTROYED WITH FIRE



God had promised blessings to the Jews if they obeyed, Deut 28: 8 and seven curses if they disobeyed, verses 15 -20. God’s Covenant is effected by His Oath. The word "oath" is based on the word "seven." And so the number "seven" represents the Covenant. In Leviticus he threatens to punish the Jews with fire if they break the Covenant.

Leviticus 26: 15-16, 27- 28
"…if you reject my precepts and spurn my decrees, refusing to obey all my commandments and breaking my covenant, then I…
(27) If, despite all this, you still persist in disobeying and defying me, I, also, will meet you with fiery defiance and will chastise you with sevenfold fiercer punishment for your sins…" (emphasis added)

It also had been prophesied that Jerusalem would be destroyed by fire in the following passages.

Ezekiel 16: 2-3, 35, 38, 41
" Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations. Thus says the Lord GOD to Jerusalem … 35 Therefore, harlot, hear the word of the LORD! …
38 I will inflict on you the sentence of adulteresses and murderesses; I will wreak fury and jealousy upon you. … 41 They shall burn your apartments with fire and inflict punishments on you while many women look on. Thus I will put an end to your harlotry, and you shall never again give payment." NAB (emphasis added)

Ezekiel 23: 2-4, 17-19, 22-25, 44-47
" Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother, who even as young girls played the harlot in Egypt. … (As for their names: Samaria is Oholah, and Jerusalem is Oholibah.) …
22 Therefore, Oholibah, thus says the Lord GOD: … 25 … They shall take away your sons and daughters, and what is left of you shall be devoured by fire. …
44 And indeed they did come to her as men come to a harlot. Thus they came to Oholah and Oholibah, the lewd women.
45 But just men shall punish them with the sentence meted out to adulteresses and murderesses, for they have committed adultery, and blood is on their hands.
… 47 The assembly shall stone them and hack them to pieces with their swords. They shall slay their sons and daughters, and burn their houses with fire." NAB (emphasis added)

Also see Lamentations 2:4, and 4:11. Ezekiel 19:12, 21:2-3, 22:19-21,



In John's prophetic vision "Babylon" is also to be destroyed by fire.

Revelation 18: 8, 17
"Therefore, her plagues will come in one day, pestilence, grief, and famine;…
she will be consumed by fire. For mighty is the Lord God who judges her…
(17) In one hour this great wealth has been ruined." Every captain of a ship, every traveler at sea, sailors, and seafaring merchants stood at a distance…"

Jerusalem had been a center for commercial trade. Jewish maps even depict it as the center of the world, but true to prophecy it had been completely destroyed by fire in 70 AD, whereas, Rome was only partially burned by Nero.

The burning of Jerusalem by fire also had theological significance. The City of Jerusalem is often referred to as a daughter.

Lamentations 2:15-18
" … They hiss and wag their heads over daughter Jerusalem:
‘Is this the all-beautiful city, the joy of the whole earth?’
…The LORD has done as he decreed: he has fulfilled the threat
He set forth from days of old; he has destroyed and had no pity,
…Cry out to the Lord; moan, O daughter Zion!" NAB

Unfaithfulness to God is frequently compared to sexual immorality.
The penalty for fornication by the daughter of the priest called for a special punishment. It was to be burned to death.

Leviticus 21:9 "A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." NAB

So, when Jerusalem was offered the grace to accept Christ, but instead rejected Him, she is referred to as the "Whore of Babylon" who is subsequently burnt to death.

ASSOCIATED WITH THE SCARLET BEAST



Compare the following verses. King Herod the Edomite, had falsely claimed to be King David’s successor. "Edom" means red, [ it referred to Esau’s successors. ] And not so coincidentally the beast in Revelation 17 is scarlet.

Revelation 17:1-3
"Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, ‘Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot … Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns."

We see an evil relationship between the harlot, apostate Jerusalem, and the scarlet beast, King Herod, on whom she is seated. This evil alliance is confirmed in the Book of Acts.

Acts 4:26-28
" ‘The kings of the earth took their stand and the princes gathered together against the Lord and against his anointed.’ Indeed they gathered in this city against your holy servant Jesus whom you anointed, Herod and Pontius Pilate, together with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do what your hand and (your) will had long ago planned to take place."

Acts 12:1-3, 19, 21-23
"About that time King Herod laid hands upon some members of the church to harm them. He had James, the brother of John, killed by the sword, and when he saw that this was pleasing to the Jews he proceeded to arrest Peter also. (It was (the) feast of Unleavened Bread.) …
(19) Herod, after instituting a search but not finding him, ordered the guards tried and executed. Then he left Judea to spend some time in Caesarea…
(21) On an appointed day, Herod, attired in royal robes, (and) seated on the rostrum, addressed them publicly. The assembled crowd cried out, ‘This is the voice of a god, not of a man.’ At once the angel of the Lord struck him down because he did not ascribe the honor to God, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last."

A reading of the Book of Acts will show many examples of the particular Jewish leaders of that time attacking the Christians. For example, Acts 7: 54 -60, 14: 4-6, 19 and 17: 5 -7. Jesus had prophesied in John 16:2 that His followers would be kicked out of the synagogue.

LIVED NEAR THE MANY WATERS



The harlot is said to live near the many waters.

Revelation 17:1-3
"Then one of the seven angels who were holding the seven bowls came and said to me, ‘Come here. I will show you the judgment on the great harlot who lives near the many waters. The kings of the earth have had intercourse with her, and the inhabitants of the earth became drunk on the wine of her harlotry.’ Then he carried me away in spirit to a deserted place where I saw a woman seated on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names, with seven heads and ten horns."

First Figurative Meaning:

Revelation 17:15 “And he said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.”



Second Figurative Meaning:

Jesus had been crucified just outside the city of Jerusalem. When His side was pierced with the sword out flowed water and blood. The water represents the waters of Baptism, through which God gives us saving grace and eternal life. The blood which flowed from His side is a reference to the Blood that He offered at the Last Supper, the Eucharist. Cf. John 6: 54

John 7:37-38 "… Jesus stood up and exclaimed, ‘Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as scripture says: "Rivers of living water will flow from within him." ’ "



Literal meaning:

Some individuals try to associate the phrase, "lives near the many waters" in Revelation 17 with the city of Rome by pointing out that Jerusalem was not on the coast. However, neither is the city of Rome on the coast. The "lives near the many waters" could also have a literal reference to the fact that within Palestine, and not to far from Jerusalem, Herod had built the man made port of Caesarea and dedicated it to the Caesar.




"BABYLON" HAS SOVEREIGNTY OVER THE NATIONS



Revelation 17:18
"The woman whom you saw represents the great city that has sovereignty over the kings of the earth."

Jerusalem, who had the role to bring God’s law to the rest of the nations, had a spiritual sovereignty over all the nations.

Psalm 2:6-9
" ‘I myself have installed my king on Zion, my holy mountain.’ I will proclaim the decree of the LORD, who said to me, ‘You are my son; today I am your father. Only ask it of me, and I will make your inheritance the nations, your possession the ends of the earth. With an iron rod you shall shepherd them, like a clay pot you will shatter them.’ "

CONSIDER THE ATTACK DEBUNKED! NEXT!

Edited September 14, 2006 by Akalyte

[ruso]

If man if, Calvin not burn anyone in the stake (alone to whom dont think as he),
Luther, neither he neither their followers caused wars with hundreds of thousands of dead persons, neither they pursued catholics in the zones that controlled, neither they acted as the inquisition burning and hanging witches and heretics(always you can show us that these things happened in the protestant zones by fault of the Jesuits).

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1062826' date='Sep 14 2006, 04:13 PM']
Literal meaning:

Some individuals try to associate the phrase, "lives near the many waters" in Revelation 17 with the city of Rome by pointing out that Jerusalem was not on the coast. However, neither is the city of Rome on the coast. The "lives near the many waters" could also have a literal reference to the fact that within Palestine, and not to far from Jerusalem, Herod had built the man made port of Caesarea and dedicated it to the Caesar.[/quote]

Does not Jerusalem have both the Mediterranean Sea, and the Jorden River on either side? Could this be "the many waters?" Is not this the symbolic meaning of the Current Israeli Flag the Six pointed Pentagram Star in the middle is symbolic of Jerusalem, and the two blue bars are symbolic of the Mediterranean Sea and the Jorden River, correct?

This makes a better argument to Jerusalem living "near the many waters" than a port, built so long ago... What do you think?

Edited September 15, 2006 by KnightofChrist