Pope Praying To A Statue?

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060744' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:23 PM']
Look who is always the center of attention?

[img]http://religion-cults.com/pope/pope-youth-17.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.salforddiocese.org.uk/images/photos/050821_wyd_cologne/pope_benedict_XVI_marienfeld_w300.jpg[/img]

[img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAGQ163~Pope-Benedict-XVI-Horiz-Crowd-Posters.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

So, you're saying that being a fan of ANYONE other than God is a sin?

[Budge]

Buddhist and Hindus, who are total idolators use the SAME EXACT EXCUSES AS CATHOLICS WITH THE SAME WORDING EVEN.

[quote] QUESTION: Do Buddhists really worship idols?

ANSWER:
No. The statues or pictures we use are symbols. Nobody thinks there's any kind of "spirit" in them, or that they can see or hear us. So they're not idols.

For that matter, Buddhism doesn't have "worship" the way other religions use the term. When we use these figures in rituals, it's a practice to help us develop more awareness or carefulness about the things the symbol represents. It's like saluting the flag. Nobody says that's cloth-worship, do they?[/quote]

THE EXACT SAME EXCUSE YOU HEAR FROM CATHOLICS. Just read the above replacing BUDDHISM with CATHOLICISM. IVE EVEN SEEN THE FLAG ANALOGY ALREADY USED!

We DONT WORSHIP STATUES...

same falsehoods line for line.

[img]http://www.nmm.ac.uk/upload/img/Community_Centre_shrine.jpg[/img]

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060726' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:06 PM']
Why dont you go argue with God about that one...
[size=5]
Isa 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye [are] our gods.[/size]

After all doesnt this Mary statue include a MOLTEN jesus too?
[/quote]As opposed to a [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/numbers/numbers21.htm#v8"]molten snake (Num 21:8)[/url]? This is such an easily refuted challenge. To suggest that the Ten Commandments forbids all religious use of statues is quickly contradicted by various places in the Old Testament (e.g. Numbers, Ezekiel, 1 Chronicles). So many statues, commanded by God and used for worship.

So, yes. Let's see who needs to argue with God about this one.

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060750' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:28 PM']
Buddhist and Hindus, who are total idolators use the SAME EXACT EXCUSES AS CATHOLICS WITH THE SAME WORDING EVEN. [/quote]

Is this the Word according to Budge? Billy Graham? That Chick character? Who are you to say "Um, no you're wrong." I am not agreeing with Buddhist religious teachings, but if they say they KNOW THAT THEY STATUES ARE NOT GOD, then what is the issue? Hasn't your question/concern been answered?

[Groo the Wanderer]

GASP!

What you are saying smacks of Truth! How dare you bring Truth into this discussion!!

We've answered him/her many times...doesn't seem to matter. Budge doesn't really want to hear the truth, just wants to drone on and on and on with accusations, falsehoods, and lies....

Sad really.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Groo the Wanderer

[Budge]

Do you even know what ended up happening to that molten snake?
[quote]
So, you're saying that being a fan of ANYONE other than God is a sin?[/quote]

I believe celebrity worship is a sin, where people hold up other human beings to an impossible level ignoring their foilbles and seeing them as being perfect.

It isnt real either, because people love a PR IMAGE of a person not even knowing the real person...{THAT IS TRUE FOR THE POPE BY THE WAY}

So rock music fans who scream and try to rip pieces of clothing off rock stars are sinning.

Those young people who pattern their lives on Britney Spears or whoever is the latest thing--I dont keep track, are sinning.

Anyone who looks to the examples of STARS {interesting name for famous people} more then Jesus Christ are indeed sinning.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060750' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:28 PM']


We DONT WORSHIP STATUES...

same falsehoods line for line.

[/quote]


Absafrigging amazing! Budge has been told point blank (many times) that we do not worship statues. Even had it pointed out the the CCC that we do not worship statues. STILL refuses to believe it.

Guess wot Budge? The Earth...better sit for this one...is....ROUND!! *GASPS*

Edited September 11, 2006 by Groo the Wanderer

[Budge]

[quote]

Is this the Word according to Budge? Billy Graham? That Chick character? Who are you to say "Um, no you're wrong." I am not agreeing with Buddhist religious teachings, but if they say they KNOW THAT THEY STATUES ARE NOT GOD, then what is the issue? Hasn't your question/concern been answered?[/quote]

So wow, NOVUS ORDO Catholics no longer consider BUDDHISTS AND HINDUS idolators?

Oh yeah I have to forget how you all are merging together.

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/058_BuddhistRetreat.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.urbandharma.org/niw05/pictures/slide30.jpg[/img]

Buddhist Catholic nun pow-wow, they worshipped together even.

[Eutychus]

Now we don't say you WORSHIP THE PLASTER itself.

We know you don't.

You DO, however, make them, serve them, and venerate, bow before, give gifts to, bring money to, dress up, fly to visit, and do massive work to maintain, transport, show, make, use, and protect.

Every last one of which, is equally condemned.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Eutychus

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060760' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:35 PM']
Do you even know what ended up happening to that molten snake?
I believe celebrity worship is a sin, where people hold up other human beings to an impossible level ignoring their foilbles and seeing them as being perfect.

It isnt real either, because people love a PR IMAGE of a person not even knowing the real person...{THAT IS TRUE FOR THE POPE BY THE WAY}

So rock music fans who scream and try to rip pieces of clothing off rock stars are sinning.

Those young people who pattern their lives on Britney Spears or whoever is the latest thing--I dont keep track, are sinning.

Anyone who looks to the examples of STARS {interesting name for famous people} more then Jesus Christ are indeed sinning.
[/quote]
Umm....I think the correct term here is DUH!

Celebrity worship IS a sin.

Believing that anyone (save Jesus Christ) is perfect IS a sin (and also simply-stupid).

But none of this has anything to do with the Pope. He is NOT perfect. He is in a position that people look up to him and admire him. Whether it's in his writings, his speaking, or his prayers, people think he's a good guy. So where's the sin? They get excited because they are in the presence of a good guy. Sure, he's holy and people are attracted to that, but they would be the first to say that he is NOT perfect.

As far as getting excited at a rock concert, there's no way you can believe what you say. Yelling and screaming and being loud is a SIN? Whatever happened to "make a joyful noise to the Lord?" I would agree with you that trying rip off someone's clothes (regardless of who they are) is probably not a good thing to be doing (note the sarcasm here, please), but, really, come on!

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060760' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:35 PM']

I believe celebrity worship is a sin, where people hold up other human beings to an impossible level ignoring their foilbles and seeing them as being perfect.

[/quote]


ANOTHER FAMOUS MISQUOTE!! The question posed was if being a FAN of someone is a sin. The answer: '...celebrity worship is a sin'.

Budge has now not only put forth themself as a pope with personal interpretation, but has also supplanted Webster in rewriting the dictionary.

Now all take heed...being a fan has been redefined as worshipping....

I guess that means I worship Twinkies, 'cause I love 'em so...and I worship Barry Manilow 'cause I love his music (ducks from thrown shoes). <------sarcasm, btw

Trying to dialogue with Budge kind of reminds me of the class clown:

teacher: Johnny, what is 2+2?
Johnny: well, yellow and blue make green!




[quote name='Budge' post='1060766' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:40 PM']
So wow, NOVUS ORDO Catholics no longer consider BUDDHISTS AND HINDUS idolators?

Oh yeah I have to forget how you all are merging together.

[img]http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/Images/058_BuddhistRetreat.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.urbandharma.org/niw05/pictures/slide30.jpg[/img]

Buddhist Catholic nun pow-wow, they worshipped together even.
[/quote]


Note how he/she never answers the question....typical...

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1060738' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:14 PM']
One of my son's best friends is a Hindu. We have gone to their temple twice now for a community foodfestival, when there, I asked the same question..."do you believe that the statues there are invested with the spirit of the god it reprensents?"

The priest answered me "No, that is silly, we are all educated here, the statue merely REPRESENTS the god or goddess."[/quote]That's fine. But, we [u]don't[/u] believe that the statues represent a god or goddess. We believe that they are artistic works that recall particular believers from the past. The only claim that these people had were that they were faithful to the Gospel.

As for statues that represent the One God (e.g. Our Lord crucified, the Holy Spirit as a dove, etc), we've got archaeological proof that this has been around since the early Christians in the catacombs of Rome. Probably the most common statue, the Crucifix, is entirely consistent with the words of St. Paul ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians1.htm#v23"]link[/url]):[quote name='1 Cor 1:23']But we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,[/quote]We use the crucifix as a visual aid to recall Our Lord's sacrifice. Think of the crucifix and other statues as 3D Powerpoint slides. Or, think of PowerPoint slides as 2D statues. Wait...PowerPoint slides are images. Image worship! LOL

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1060738' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:14 PM'][img]http://www.hindunet.org/god/Gods/krishna/krishna.jpg[/img]

Note the simularities, crown, halo, etc...[/quote]I also note other similarities: two eyes, one nose, somewhat human-looking.

[quote name='Budge' post='1060760' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:35 PM']Do you even know what ended up happening to that molten snake?[/quote]Of course, I do. But, does this make the creation of the bronze snake wrong? Did God make a mistake or break one of His own commandments? Of course not.

There is no argument that some uses of statues in worship are considered idolotry. My point is: the Holy Bible cannot be used to support a claim that [u]all[/u] uses of statues are idolotry. To absolutely reject the licit use of statues in worship is to reject God's own commands in the Old Testament.

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1060768' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:42 PM']
Now we don't say you WORSHIP THE PLASTER itself.

We know you don't.

You DO, however, make them, serve them, and venerate, bow before, give gifts to, bring money to, dress up, fly to visit, and do massive work to maintain, transport, show, make, use, and protect.

Every last one of which, is equally condemned. [/quote]Every last one is equally condemned? You sound pretty sure of yourself.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

notice the "nuns" lack habits... that already explains a lot.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1060770' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:46 PM']Note how he/she never answers the question....typical...[/quote]Post enough of these pictures from traditionalist websites, and Eutychus might be made an honorary member of SSPX. LOL

[Winchester]

Well, since we're pointing out similarities in religious symbols and thereby "proving" that Catholic art is pagan, let's remember that religions before Chrisitanity had their gods die and be reborn as well.

I'm sure this proves that Jesus is just an adaptation of those myths.