Pope Praying To A Statue?

[Budge]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Mariensaeule.jpg/600px-Mariensaeule.jpg[/img]


Why does Jesus always come as an afterthought in these monologues?

Things get really weird when the Pope puts YOU and descripters of statue in same sentence. We gave you a crown and scepter...No they gave a hunk of golden metal a crown and scepter.

[quote]Pope's Prayer at Column of the Virgin

"Bless Us, This City and This Country!"

MUNICH, Germany, SEPT. 10, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Here is a translation of the prayer Benedict XVI recited in German before the Mariensaeule (Column of the Virgin) in the Marienplatz, in which he entrusted Bavaria again to the Mother of God.

* * *

Holy Mother of the Lord!

Our ancestors, at a time of trouble, set up your statue here, in the very heart of Munich, and entrusted the city and country to your care. They wanted to meet you again and again along the paths of their daily life, and to learn from you the right way to live, to find God and to live in harmony.

[size=4]They gave[u] you[/u] a crown and a scepter, which at that time were symbols of dominion over the country, because they knew that power and dominion would then be in good hands -- in the hands of a Mother.[/size]

Your Son, just before his farewell to his disciples, said to them: "Whoever wishes to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you must be slave of all" (Mark 10:43-44).

At the decisive hour in your own life, you said: "Here I am, the servant of the Lord" (Luke 1:38) . You lived your whole life as service. And you continue to do so throughout history.

At Cana, you silently and discreetly interceded for the spouses, and so you continue to do. You take upon yourself people's needs and concerns, and you bring them before the Lord, before your Son. Your power is goodness. Your power is service.

Teach us -- great and small alike -- to carry out our responsibilities in the same way. Help us to find the strength to offer reconciliation and forgiveness. Help us to become patient and humble, but also free and courageous, just as you were at the hour of the cross.

[size=4]In your arms you hold Jesus, the child who blesses, the child who is also the Lord of the world. [/size]By holding the child who blesses, you have yourself become a blessing.

Bless us, this city and this country! Show us Jesus, the blessed fruit of your womb! Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen![/quote]

[Jaime]

The Mother of God should be honored not dismissed. The Holy Father is showing due reverence. I'm sorry you don't get that.

[kujo]

Simple question:

Have you ever looked at an old photograph of an old friend? When you looked at that photograph, did your mind begin to race back to all of the good/bad memories you have that involve that friend?

That's a really simplified way of explaining what statues do for Catholics (and pretty much anybody with a rational mind who isn't trying to push an anti-Catholic agenda). They are visual representations of people/scenes in our history that, if used as an aide to prayer, help us keep our minds on God.

Further explanation would provoke a debate on whether we Catholics "pray to" Mary and the saints and I think we all know where that would lead. But I hope that, rather than immediately write my response off, you Budge would take a few moments in silent prayer and ask God if this issue is even worth arguing over.

[Budge]

I believe it is worth exposing because God preaches against idolatry.

Lets anaylze the situation, there is the Pope doing this speech in front of thousands of Germans.

Is anyone's attention on Jesus Christ?

Is anyone's attention on the gospel?

Is anyone's attention on God? {God is only mentoned as being a little helpless baby}

It is all focused on the fancy golden statue and Mary.

The Mary of the Bible would be horrified. I do see Mary as an example of a Christian believer having done Gods Will, but she was HUMBLE. She would not accept golden statues of her like a pseudo-Nebachanezzar.

I go daily to Zenit and read the Pope's weekly speeches, 9 out of 10 are focused on Mary. Jesus is rarely ever mentioned and then just as an afterthought.

The Pope's real focus is bringing everyone to the queen of heaven, not a creature of heaven whatsoever.

I finished reading the book of Acts the other day again, and NOT once is MARY PRAYED to or honored in this way by the early church.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Budge

[Eutychus]

Now Budge, this is really unfair.

If they want plaster gods, for goodness sake, leave them alone with them.

Who are YOU to say that plaster goddesses are wrong?

Come on, only a fundy hard core bible believing catholic basher would even notice a GROWN MAN, head of the worlds largest "church" standing there talking to a gilded lady on a pole with a toddler in her arms.

Outside of your crazy bible thumping world, this is NORMAL behavior! Haven't you ever been to India, Japan or anywhere around the world where adoring plaster, talking to plaster, giving gifts to plaster, and dressing up plaster in fancy outfits is considered normal behavior?

I believe you need to get your head out of that dusty book you are hanging onto, and get with the program here, ok?

[kenrockthefirst]

I am a father. I bless my children every day. Does that make me God? Or if my children ask for my blessing, are they praying to me as an idol?

With respect, get a life. Are you so insecure in what you believe that you have to try and tear down what we believe?

[Groo the Wanderer]

WOW! Not only is your ranting selective, so is your vision....

[quote name='Budge' post='1060703' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:46 PM']
Is anyone's attention on Jesus Christ?
[/quote]
Umm...look at who Mary is carring in her left arm....don't look like Daffy Duck to me..


[quote name='Budge' post='1060703' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:46 PM']
Is anyone's attention on God? {God is only mentoned as being a little helpless baby}
[/quote]
See above answer...also didn;t realize you had the gift of being able to discern from a picture what was in a person's heart and mind? You are SO amazing!

[quote name='Budge' post='1060703' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:46 PM']
It is all focused on the fancy golden statue and Mary.
[/quote]
Once again...who is that in her arms?

[quote name='Budge' post='1060703' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:46 PM']
The Mary of the Bible would be horrified. I do see Mary as an example of a Christian believer having done Gods Will, but she was HUMBLE. She would not accept golden statues of her like a pseudo-Nebachanezzar.

I finished reading the book of Acts the other day again, and NOT once is MARY PRAYED to or honored in this way by the early church.
[/quote]
Yer reading the wrong books...oh yeah..there's that selectiveity again. Try Luke: "all nations shall call me blessed" or Revelation...you know...that part about the woman in heaven with a crown of stars..doesn't sound like the cleaning lady to me...


Nice try, but so transparent....NEXT!

[Budge]

[size=5]Deu 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[/size]

Euch someone has to warn them that putting all this attention on dead hunks of metal, woods and stone is against God's commandments.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Oh yeah...one more thing...the title of yer thread....

Since when does praying IN FRONT OF AN OBJECT = praying TO THAT OBJECT?

So..if you kneel in front of yer bed an night, you are praying to your pillowcase? If you pray on a airplane because you are a tad bit afraid of flying, you are actually praying to the tray table?

Not even going to ask what you pray to if you happen to say a quick prayer of thanks for your day when you are in the loo.....

Gimme a big fat hairy break....

[kujo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060703' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:46 PM']
I believe it is worth exposing because God preaches against idolatry.

Lets anaylze the situation, there is the Pope doing this speech in front of thousands of Germans.

Is anyone's attention on Jesus Christ?

Is anyone's attention on the gospel?

Is anyone's attention on God? {God is only mentoned as being a little helpless baby}

It is all focused on the fancy golden statue and Mary.

The Mary of the Bible would be horrified. I do see Mary as an example of a Christian believer having done Gods Will, but she was HUMBLE. She would not accept golden statues of her like a pseudo-Nebachanezzar.

I go daily to Zenit and read the Pope's weekly speeches, 9 out of 10 are focused on Mary. Jesus is rarely ever mentioned and then just as an afterthought.

The Pope's real focus is bringing everyone to the queen of heaven, not a creature of heaven whatsoever.

I finished reading the book of Acts the other day again, and NOT once is MARY PRAYED to or honored in this way by the early church.
[/quote]

I point your attention to the first chapter of the Gospel of Luke Luke :

"And it came about that when Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice, and said, 'Blessed among women [are] you, and blessed [is] the fruit of your womb! And how has it [happened] to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. And blessed [is] she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord.' And Mary said: [b]'My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior[/b]. For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name. And His mercy is upon generation after generation Toward those who fear Him. He has done mighty deeds with His arm; He has scattered [those who were] proud in the thoughts of their heart. He has brought down rulers from [their] thrones, And has exalted those who were humble. He has filled the hungry with good things; And sent away the rich empty-handed. He has given help to Israel His servant, In remembrance of His mercy, as He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and his offspring forever.'" (41-55)

To my knowledge, this is supports the view held by the Catholic Church that when we try to live like Mary, we are honoring Christ. By your very words, Mary was a humble woman, whose "soul exalt[ed] the Lord."

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060715' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:57 PM']
[size=5]Deu 4:28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.[/size]

Euch someone has to warn them that putting all this attention on dead hunks of metal, woods and stone is against God's commandments.[/quote]I have never met a Catholic who believes that a statue is a god. If you think that Catholics believe Mary is a goddess, I really think you are being dishonest in saying something so contrary to what we believe. Imagine if someone claimed that you worshipped your KJV Bible. Wouldn't that be inaccurate?

Please don't bear false witness. It's explicitly commanded by the Ten Commandments.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Mateo el Feo

[Budge]

[quote]
Since when does praying IN FRONT OF AN OBJECT = praying TO THAT OBJECT?
[/quote]

Why dont you go argue with God about that one...
[size=5]
Isa 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye [are] our gods.[/size]

After all doesnt this Mary statue include a MOLTEN jesus too?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1060717' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:00 PM']Oh yeah...one more thing...the title of yer thread....

Since when does praying IN FRONT OF AN OBJECT = praying TO THAT OBJECT?

So..if you kneel in front of yer bed an night, you are praying to your pillowcase? If you pray on a airplane because you are a tad bit afraid of flying, you are actually praying to the tray table?[/quote]For that matter, when all the evangelicals wave their hands and pray in the direction of their pastor, are they worshipping the pastor in some kind of cult of personality? There's usually nothing else on the stage. The only other alternative might be that they're worshipping a PowerPoint presentation! LOL

[Eutychus]

[quote] I have never met a Catholic who believes that a statue is a god. [/quote]

One of my son's best friends is a Hindu. We have gone to their temple twice now for a community foodfestival, when there, I asked the same question..."do you believe that the statues there are invested with the spirit of the god it reprensents?"

The priest answered me "No, that is silly, we are all educated here, the statue merely REPRESENTS the god or goddess."

[img]http://www.hindunet.org/god/Gods/krishna/krishna.jpg[/img]

Note the simularities, crown, halo, etc...

[Budge]

Just so you know Im consistent when the Southern Baptists set up a statue of Billy Graham I posted against it.

If I went to my church and they put up a statue of my pastor and started talking to it, I would be standing on a pew, to rebuke them and tell them of how many endless commands they were breaking. I would not tolerate that behavior whatsoever.

No Christian church worships the pastor and if they do, they are false. Benny Hinn is an example of that where celebrity worship reigns...

BUT SPEAKING OF CULT OF PERSONALITIES YOUR CHURCH HAS THAT ONE DOWN...

isnt it your church that has the crowds of millions literally screaming PAPA, PAPA! Where is God in all that?

Look who is always the center of attention?

[img]http://religion-cults.com/pope/pope-youth-17.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.salforddiocese.org.uk/images/photos/050821_wyd_cologne/pope_benedict_XVI_marienfeld_w300.jpg[/img]

[img]http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAGQ163~Pope-Benedict-XVI-Horiz-Crowd-Posters.jpg[/img]