Pope Visits Black Madonna

[Budge]

[img]http://www.germany.info/relaunch/culture/new/images/shrine1.jpg[/img]


[quote]
Pope visits site where Catholics pray for miracles

Deutsche Presse Agentur
Published: Monday September 11, 2006

Altoetting, Germany- The pilgrimage site where Pope Benedict XVI celebrated mass on Monday, Altoetting, is a place where for centuries pious Catholics have prayed for miracles before a statue of the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus Christ. T[size=5]he 65-centimetre-tall statue, carved out of linden wood, probably in 14th century France, shows Our Lady of Altoetting holding the infant Jesus. Known as the Black Madonna, it has been decorated over the years with precious jewels and blackened by candle soot. [/size]
[/quote]

Blackened with candle soot, thats what they tell you...{I wonder how all those other icons and such stay so clean}

BLACK MADONNAS are a SYMBOL OF THE GODDESS.

They are NOT CHRISTIAN.

They are NOT BLACK due to being AFRICAN, they are COLORED BLACK for another reason, keep reading.

[quote]

[size=4]Our ancient, battered, much-loved, little understood Black Virgins are a still-living archetypal image that lies at the heart of our civilization and has a message for us. The feminine principle is not a theory but real and it has a will of its own which we ignore at our peril.[/size] It is an independent principle and cannot be forced against its will to go anywhere or do anything without bringing retribution on the perpetrator." -- Ean Begg "The Cult of the Black Virgin" Penguin/Arkana[/quote]

[quote]

There is no doubt that the prehistoric veneration of Mother Earth survived intact . . . Her power was too ancient and deep to be altogether destroyed by succeeding patriarchal religions, including Christianity. . [quote]. . The Black Madonna is this same Earth Mother, whose blackness represents the color of earth's fertility."[/quote] -- Marija Gimbutas "The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe" Harper Collins

[/quote]

[quote]
". . .[font="Arial Black"][size=5] black madonnas are Christian borrowings from earlier pagan art forms that depicted Ceres, Demeter Melaina, Diana, Isis, Cybele, Artemis, or Rhea as black, the color characteristic of goddesses of the earth's fertility." -- [/size][/font]Leonard Moss & Stephen Cappannari, "In Quest of the Black Virgin: She Is Black Because She Is Black", in Mother Worship, Chapel Hill/University of North Carolina Press[/quote]


[url="http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html"]http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html[/url]

When I was UU, they did some prayers to the goddess and included among them were the 'black' fertility goddesses.

Pope John Paul II..."Crossing the Threshold of Hope"

[quote] Another chapter in my life is Jasna Góra, with its icon of the Black Madonna. Our Lady of Jasna Góra has been venerated for centuries as the Queen of Poland. This shrine belongs to the entire country. The Polish nation has sought for centuries, and continues to seek, support and strength for spiritual rebirth from its Lady and Queen. At Jasna Góra a special evangelization comes about. The great events in the life of Poland have always been tied to this place in some way. Both the [size=5]ancient [/size]and modern history of my nation have their deepest roots there on the hill of Jasna Góra.[/quote]

Pure IDOLATRY AND PAGANISM

[Eutychus]

Wow.

You got yer GOLD statues, wood statues, plaster statues...you name it, they have it.

I love the little outfits they put on those Catholic barbie dolls, some have a different dress up outfit for every day of the year.

And what is it with those silly crowns that are at LEAST three times too big for the head that the plaster barbie actually has??

[Budge]

I always wondered that why the crowns are so huge, made for a statue with a pumpkin head they never do fit right!

[img]http://www.ourladyofmountcarmel.org/fatima_headshot_042005.jpg[/img]

Maybe its so they can give it bigger jewels? Honestly someone with that big of crown in real life would break their neck. I think its cause the demon of the apparitions wants as much vainglory as possible--the bigger the crown, the better it feels.

[quote]Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, [size=5]neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: [/size]for I [am] the LORD your God.[/quote]

When their leaders dont even follow the Bible, so wonder the Catholics are so confused.

[img]http://www.inplainsite.org/assets/images/Pope-Mary-3.jpg[/img]

[Eutychus]

Now Budge, come on....

Sheesh.

That statue isn't STONE, it is PLASTER, and no where does "God" say plaster goddesses are forbidden, only stone ones, wooden ones, silver and golden ones.

Plaster gets a free pass here, and YOU KNOW THAT...so give them a break wouldya?

[Budge]

I didnt see God make an exception for Plaster of Paris, Euch...

[Winchester]

Wow, this is going somewhere.

Symbols do not have inherent meanings. Their meanings are bestowed upon them. I guess the Swastika shapes present in American-Indian art actually symbolize the Nazi Party? What an interesting philosophical position!

I assume you don't celebrate Christmas on December 25th, since it's real meaning is a pagan holiday. When do you celebrate it?

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060674' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:55 PM']
[img]http://www.germany.info/relaunch/culture/new/images/shrine1.jpg[/img]
Blackened with candle soot, thats what they tell you...{I wonder how all those other icons and such stay so clean}

BLACK MADONNAS are a SYMBOL OF THE GODDESS.

They are NOT CHRISTIAN.

They are NOT BLACK due to being AFRICAN, they are COLORED BLACK for another reason, keep reading.
-- Marija Gimbutas "The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe" Harper Collins

[url="http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html"]http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html[/url]

When I was UU, they did some prayers to the goddess and included among them were the 'black' fertility goddesses.

Pope John Paul II..."Crossing the Threshold of Hope"



Pure IDOLATRY AND PAGANISM
[/quote]


When I traveled to Spain, I went to Montserrat. On top of this mountain was a Benedictine Abbey of monks and a sanctuary of the Shrine of Our Lady of Montserrat. Her image is dark due to time. Here is some info that may be of help to you:

[url="http://www.abadiamontserrat.net/html/eng/index_espiritu.htm"]http://www.abadiamontserrat.net/html/eng/index_espiritu.htm[/url]

That moment was one of the most spectacular of my life. I understood right then and there why there are those called to live as the monks do.

You may find that going on small pilgrimages will help you in coming back to The Church. It doesn't necessarily have to be a huge overseas deal. A trip to Mother Angelica's place is very healing if you happen to pass by. I was there 4 years ago when my mother died. What a blessing it was! Or perhaps something even smaller...a 30 minute daily Mass and sometime in quiet prayer. Start small, and God will take care of the rest.

God Bless!

[scardella]

Actually, the goddess worship stuff is a demonic mockery of devotion to the Blessed Virgin.

[ruso]

I know several black virgins, of different places. In Spain we have several, like it mentioned of Monserrat
You look my avatar, I am offending to Jesus?.
I give you an exclusive one for your following one thread: S. Joseph was not a carpenter.

[Budge]

Actually you are offending the second commandment with that avatar.

That avatar is only an imagination of what Jesus looked like and is a vain imagination, I'm sure that carpenters were in good shape, but that artist must have thought jesus did steroids or something.

Mary, visiting more shrines isnt going to do it. My parents took me to enough American ones when I was young. Most of them focus on Mary way more then Jesus Christ and are full of idolatrous statues that break the second commandment.

[ruso]

Less badly than I have obtained the avatar in a page protestant, all we try to idealize to Jesus, is not evil to do it.
If we know as was Jesus, the holy shroud of Turin is authenticate.

[Called2theCross]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060718' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:02 PM']I think its cause the demon of the apparitions wants as much vainglory as possible--the bigger the crown, the better it feels.
When their leaders dont even follow the Bible, so wonder the Catholics are so confused.

[/quote]

I think she wears the big crown not to encourage, um, "vainglory" but to remind us of her status as Queen of Heaven, just as my status is a child of God and a sinner, therefore I don't deserve a big crown. Might I point out that without a Mary, there wouldn't be a Jesus.
With all she sacrificed for God I think she deserves a big crown.

[stbernardLT]

The funny thing is that you think because you show us a picture of the pope kneeling before a statue you got something good. Budge he is not the only one doing it, we all do.

In the past you've posted things that related to actions of priest that might have seemed suspect, but now you are bringing up devotion and doctrine, which we all hold dear.

Prepare to get schooled by the phatmassers, just like every othertime you brought up a actual theological discussion.

Maybe we will take it a little easier on you than that Co-Redemprix thread.

Don't you be talkin' bout my moma!

Edited September 11, 2006 by stbernardLT

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060674' date='Sep 11 2006, 10:55 AM']
[img]http://www.germany.info/relaunch/culture/new/images/shrine1.jpg[/img]
Blackened with candle soot, thats what they tell you...{I wonder how all those other icons and such stay so clean}

BLACK MADONNAS are a SYMBOL OF THE GODDESS.

They are NOT CHRISTIAN.

They are NOT BLACK due to being AFRICAN, they are COLORED BLACK for another reason, keep reading.
-- Marija Gimbutas "The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe" Harper Collins

[url="http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html"]http://shell.amigo.net/~ma3/BVRaves.html[/url]

When I was UU, they did some prayers to the goddess and included among them were the 'black' fertility goddesses.

Pope John Paul II..."Crossing the Threshold of Hope"



Pure IDOLATRY AND PAGANISM
[/quote]
O Budge, you know much that is hidden!

Now who are these people that you quoted, and what authority should their words have for us? (Except, of course, for Pope JPII, who says absolutely nothing about Mary being a pagan goddess! Fundy reading-comp problem acting up again?
The fact that he would honor Mary should hardly come as a shock - after all, the Pope [i]is[/i] Catholic!)

As for the rest of those people, why should we care about their nonsense? None of them "reps the Church"!

And I'm sure you're aware, of course, that most of these atheistic/New-Agey pop-academic types that claim veneration of Mary comes from worship of pagan goddesses [b]also[/b] claim that Jesus Christ is [i]really[/i] the same as Apollo, Mithras, Osiris, or some other pagan god.
Nonsense and rot, all of it!

[Dave]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060887' date='Sep 11 2006, 05:47 PM']
Actually you are offending the second commandment with that avatar.

That avatar is only an imagination of what Jesus looked like and is a vain imagination, I'm sure that carpenters were in good shape, but that artist must have thought jesus did steroids or something.

Mary, visiting more shrines isnt going to do it. My parents took me to enough American ones when I was young. Most of them focus on Mary way more then Jesus Christ and are full of idolatrous statues that break the second commandment.
[/quote]

Budge, how many times do we have to tell you that what you call the 2nd Commandment (Catholics consider it part of the 1st Commandment) that statues are NOT idolatrous? After it says not to make graven images, it says we aren't to BOW DOWN TO THEM OR SERVE THEM. We're not supposed to WORSHIP statues! And Catholics don't worship them. Is the Statue of Liberty an idol? How about the statue of Abe Lincoln at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, DC or the statue of Thomas Jefferson at the Jefferson Memorial? How about photographs, especially of friends or family? Do you consider those "idolatrous"?

And if you kneel down beside your bed to pray before going to sleep, are you worshiping your mattress and committing idolatry?

If you say yes to any of those questions, then it's pointless to have this conversation with you, as you've left the realm of reality.

Anyway, these shrines you talk about have God as their numero uno concern. The Mass is celebrated there, and Mass is the highest worship of God imaginable. So there are statues of Mary and other saints there. It doesn't mean they focus more on Mary and other saints than God. Rather, they serve to remind us of the heroic Christian lives these saints have led and to serve God just as they did! I mean, when we honor saints, we honor God, who, after all, created them and gave them graces to serve Him and do His will. If you had a child, and someone told you s/he was really nice and polite, then surely you'd understand that it was ultimately directed at you, as you'd raised him/her well. And if an artist sees people admiring his paintings, does he say, "Hey, pay attention to me instead!"? Of course not! By admiring his paintings, people are honoring the person who painted them!

Edited September 12, 2006 by Dave