kamiller42 Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1062643' date='Sep 14 2006, 01:12 PM'] Considering the world is full of atheist, agnostic, pagan and God-rejecting little sprinkled babies....Catholic infant baptism just means a baby got wet. [/quote] Are you saying if those people had been baptized when they reached an "age of reason", they would never be atheistic, agnostic, pagan, or God-rejecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote]Are you saying if those people had been baptized when they reached an "age of reason", they would never be atheistic, agnostic, pagan, or God-rejecting?[/quote] The baptism would mean something then because it would be a sign of their FAITH in Jesus Christ. Making a baby wet, doesnt mean you make them a Christian. Go to the public swimming pool then and start baptizing all the heathens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Baptism DOES mean something. The meaning of baptism is not conferred by something that we can muster of our own power. The meaning (i.e., the GRACE) of baptism is conferred by the power of the Holy Spirit. You didn't address the question of mentally handicapped people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1062954' date='Sep 14 2006, 07:25 PM'] The baptism would mean something then because it would be a sign of their FAITH in Jesus Christ. Making a baby wet, doesnt mean you make them a Christian. Go to the public swimming pool then and start baptizing all the heathens.... [/quote]So Budge. Faith, which is a gift of grace, is gotten how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 [size=5]Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1062185' date='Sep 13 2006, 08:23 PM'] That is one Catholic belief, that makes me scared for all of you. You cant assume that you entered into a relationship with Christ just because you had some water splashed on you as a baby. I know it didnt make me born again. I wouldnt know Jesus Christ until my 30s. As a baby if that is when you were baptized--majority of Catholics baptized at infancy...it is impossible that you became born again. [/quote] OK, Budge, let me ask you a question. Forgive me if I asked it previously. If infant baptism is wrong, and you need to make a conscious decision to accept Christ, what happens to a two-month old infant who dies suddenly? Will he spend eternity in hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I am disturbed by the notion that one must understand grace to receive it. Isn't that a form of Gnosticism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote] If infant baptism is wrong, and you need to make a conscious decision to accept Christ, what happens to a two-month old infant who dies suddenly? Will he spend eternity in hell?[/quote] No. Matthew 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God. How can a little innocent baby sin? {Its Catholics that USED to teach that they were sent to LIMBO} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Limbo was never dogmatic. Original Sin--It's in the Bible--as opposed to Actual Sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote]Limbo was never dogmatic.[/quote] How convienient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1063156' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:14 PM'] [size=5]Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:[/size] [/quote] [size=5]James 2:16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way? 26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead. [/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1063175' date='Sep 15 2006, 12:43 AM'] How convienient. [/quote] It has nothing to do with convenience. There are dogmas, which are defined truths, then there are doctrines, which are not formally defined. Then there are other things, one of which is the category of theological opinions. Limbo is a theological opinion. Theological opinions are used as attempts to explain matters which are not a part of the faith, but are up for speculation. Therefore, at best, limbo was a commonly believed theological speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Budge' post='1063164' date='Sep 14 2006, 11:28 PM'] How can a little innocent baby sin? [/quote] This is how: [b]Romans 5:14 (KJV): Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. [/b] As Winchester said, original sin. It's in the bible. So, I ask you again, what happens to the baby if he/she dies before having a chance to be consciously born again? Edited September 15, 2006 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Budge, more than a few of us are still awaiting a response as to the "necessity" you've imposed on the understanding of grace. what about mentally handicapped people who cannot understand? should they be excluded from the Body of Christ? are they to be denied baptism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 [quote name='Budge' post='1062954' date='Sep 14 2006, 08:25 PM'] The baptism would mean something then because it would be a sign of their FAITH in Jesus Christ. [/quote] Please quote the Bible where it says you have to reach an age of reason to be a Christian. What about those incapable of reasoning? Ditto what Norseman82 said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now