What I Learned In My Years In Catholic School

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Budge,

If that is truely the experience you had in school then hear from me that I am sorry. No child should go through life not knowing that Christ loves them and died for them.

On another note from your post, which religious ed texts are you looking at when you said the they teach the UN can do no wrong. I kno9w the text I use for my fifth grade class last year NEVER mentioned the UN. It idid statrt out with God is Love, and When we pray we talk to God. Jesus died for us because he loves us, and the like.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060835' date='Sep 11 2006, 03:58 PM']

Hey why would I find St. Paul to be bad? I was a UU where anti-Chrsitianity is preached from the pulpits. "christ was an insane iternirant preacher" that was a favorite line of one of my latest UU minister.

God can forgive all sins. Even the worse evil person can repent and come to Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Oh my goodness, you used to be an UU? I can understand why you are so angery about being tricked into relativism. I too am angry about it for it denys the Truth, who is Jesus. I will even agree with you that water-down Christianity, whether it be Catholic or not, is even abhorent to the Living God.

[Budge]

[quote]On another note from your post, which religious ed texts are you looking at when you said the they teach the UN can do no wrong. I kno9w the text I use for my fifth grade class last year NEVER mentioned the UN. It idid statrt out with God is Love, and When we pray we talk to God. Jesus died for us because he loves us, and the like.
[/quote]

My text as a child didnt talk of the UN except rarely I am talking about a religious ed text I was forced to use as a RE teacher in the Catholic Church...just a few years ago.

Wish I had kept it but I had to give it back to the church, it had a Nautilus Shell design on the cover.

[quote]
Oh my goodness, you used to be an UU? I can understand why you are so angery about being tricked into relativism. I too am angry about it for it denys the Truth, who is Jesus. I will even agree with you that water-down Christianity, whether it be Catholic or not, is even abhorent to the Living God.[/quote]
[u]
So do you GET WHY the Catholic and duped Prot Interfaith movement and march to Revelation 17 makes me want to literally HURL?[/u]

[img]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0385504608.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img]

UU Logo representing all the Worlds religions.

We were taught day after day, that all religions led to God and should come together for peace. Remember I was a fan of Alice Bailey who taught that synthesis of all the worlds religions was the ideal.

[img]http://www.uuwausau.org/History2_files/image010.jpg[/img]

One telling day was realizing a prayer at Assisi, that I read right off the Vatican website definitely matched the Lucis Trust Invocation.






[quote]Oh yeah, Budge, I forgot to mention something ...

If you didn't hear the Gospel in the Catholic Church, then it's probably because you WEREN'T LISTENING.[/quote]

Yeah blame it on the kid, I suppose that may be easier to do, then accepting the fact that the gospel is not preached in Catholic churches.

I was nearly a straight A student, I think if I had been taught the gospel I would have "gotten it."

Actually even though I consider Hal Lindsey a date setter and a false preacher in some things, some seeds were planted in me reading The Late Great Planet Earth in Catholic school, which the nuns took away from me twice, this was my first exposure to Bible Prophecy, something that definitely led me back to Christ.

The first time I heard the gospel was as a college student, by then after years of Catholic confusion and my new introduction to UUism, the Christians preaching the gospel to me were unable to get through the fog but they planted seeds as well.

I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Budge

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061451' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:23 PM']
I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.
[/quote]

Salvation is a Free gift, just like when my father (earthly) gave men his old car cause mine broke down. But I still had to put gas in the car to make it work.

[Budge]

Just another way for you to tell me...

What Jesus did on the cross wasnt enough...

A Christian sees Salvation as Completed in Jesus Christ.

A Catholic sees Salvation as needing additions from Mary, themselves, the Treasury of Merit, Purgatory, and NOT completed in Jesus Christ.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061524' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:43 PM']
Just another way for you to tell me...

What Jesus did on the cross wasnt enough...

A Christian sees Salvation as Completed in Jesus Christ.

A Catholic sees Salvation as needing additions from Mary, themselves, the Treasury of Merit, Purgatory, and NOT completed in Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

Maybe you might want to join the debate thread on making complete the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. I am truely interested in your thoughts there. Catholics do see salvation completed by Christ.

[Budge]

Come on you just told me the complete opposite...
[quote]
Catholics do see salvation completed by Christ.[/quote]

Which is it?

if you have to put gas in to make it work, its not completed is it?

[quote]
Salvation is a Free gift, just like when my father (earthly) gave men his old car cause mine broke down. But I still had to put gas in the car to make it work.

[/quote]

[Anomaly]

Budge,
Make some philosophical and theological arguments based on principle, not just denominational choices. You are no different than the rabid Caths here.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061551' date='Sep 12 2006, 04:56 PM']
Come on you just told me the complete opposite...
Which is it?

if you have to put gas in to make it work, its not completed is it?
[/quote]

I may not have made my analogy clear. Salvation is completed by Christ. The Gift of Salvation on the cross is there but we must chose to accept it, and follow it. The same way the car was able to work and complete, but I have to choose to put gas in the car to make it work. Again I suggest you look at the the thread here on the debate table on making the suffering of Christ complete

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Budge' post='1061451' date='Sep 12 2006, 05:23 PM']

Yeah blame it on the kid, I suppose that may be easier to do, then accepting the fact that the gospel is not preached in Catholic churches.

I was nearly a straight A student, I think if I had been taught the gospel I would have "gotten it."

The first time I heard the gospel was as a college student, by then after years of Catholic confusion and my new introduction to UUism, the Christians preaching the gospel to me were unable to get through the fog but they planted seeds as well.

I realize on here, that hopefully one day someone will remember what I told them and how the gospel is really about SALVATION in Christ that is a FREE GIFT, not obtained via endless rites, rituals and works.
[/quote]

I am confused by what you mean by the gospel is not taught in the Church. My thinking is that of course it is because it is read at every mass followed by a homily on the readings. This does not seem to be what you are talking about.

[Eutychus]

[quote] Worship simply means to honour... so yes, I, a Catholic do worship the Pope, though the worship I give him is less than that of Latria or Dulia.[/quote]

Oh come on, historically, the trail of tears leading to the hubris and ego manifestations of the loons that murdered their way to the barque of peter is long and well established.

I would submit, that a man, who ALLOWED others to call him "SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH" has crossed that line, a term that has been used, loved, and abused all too often by the thug wearing silk and lace riding in a gilded chair, carried by Catholic Rickshaw Coolies.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ee/GestatorialChair1.jpg/200px-GestatorialChair1.jpg[/img]

Just so you cannot make the fallacious false claim, that this originates from an anti-Catholic source, ALL these quotes are from the Vatican website itself!

[quote]
[b]
The Lord Pope - Sweet Christ On Earth?[/b]

There are currently at least five documents on the Vatican web site that use the blasphemous phrase "sweet Christ on earth" to describe the Pope-

46. ... In founders and foundresses we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church's life, and in their ready obedience to the Bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for "the Lord Pope", the daughterly outspokenness of [u]Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called "sweet Christ on earth",[/u] the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola, and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: "I am a daughter of the Church". ...

Vatican Source #1: Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation VITA CONSECRATA, (On The Consecrated Life And Its Mission In The Church And In The World), March 25, 1996.

*

The same document at Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN)

7. ... With the same vigour, Catherine addressed Churchmen of every rank, demanding of them the most exacting integrity in their personal lives and their pastoral ministry. The uninhibited, powerful and incisive tone in which she admonished priests, Bishops and Cardinals is quite striking. It is essential — she would say — to root out from the garden of the Church the rotten plants and to put in their place “new plants” which are fresh and fragrant. And strengthened by her intimacy with Christ, the Saint of Siena was not afraid to point out frankly even to the Pope, whom she loved dearly as[u] her “sweet Christ on earth”,[/u] that the will of God demanded that he should abandon the hesitation born of earthly prudence and worldly interests, and return from Avignon to Rome, to the Tomb of Peter. ...

Vatican Source #2: Pope John Paul II, Motu Proprio proclaiming Co-Patronesses of Europe, October 1st, 1999.

* The same document at Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN)
* The same document at Catholic Information Network (CIN)

ST. CATHERINE AND THE PRIESTS:
A MESSAGE FOR THE CHURCH OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM

Your Eminencies, Excellencies, reverend and dear priests, I feel especially honoured to provide this small service to you, whom St. Catherine of Siena defines as "Ministers of the Blood of Christ", in this patriarchal Basilica, centre of Catholicism, housing the Chair of he who is the "Sweet Christ on earth". ...

Only the Pope could correct the defects of the priests, and not the laity who should always revere them, since Christ left to the Apostle Peter and his successors the key of His Blood, from which all the Sacraments gain life. [u]The Pope, with ardent faith recognized by Catherine as "sweet Christ on earth" and called with tender affection "My kindest daddy" [/u]is asked to work strongly for the reform of the Church. "Intervene to eliminate the stink of the ministers of the Holy Church; pull out the stinking flowers and plant scented plants, virtuous men who fear God". ...

Vatican Source #3: Lecture by Professor Maria Antonietta Falchi Pellegrini, Vatican's Paul VI Hall, (17 May 2000).

... The twentieth century was one of the most crucial in human history, with its tragic and cruel events culminating in the assassination [u]attempt on the “sweet Christ on earth”. [/u]Now a veil is drawn back on a series of events which make history and interpret it in depth, in a spiritual perspective alien to present-day attitudes, often tainted with rationalism. ...

Vatican Source #4: Introduction to the Third Secret of Fatima, by Tarcisio Bertone, SDB, Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The identical text regarding the Third Secret of Fatima also appears on scores of Catholic web sites, to include the following:

* Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN)
* Catholic Information Network (CIN)

This Synod can be read, in this area, as an expression of full communion with and in the Universal Church, and with[b] [u]the Roman Pontiff His Holiness John Paul II "the sweet Christ on earth".[/u][/b]

Vatican Source #5: Synodus Episcoporum 15 - 8.10.1999

The same text at Zenit: Address by Rev. Sr. Irina - M. Ioana BOTA, O.S.B.M., Provincial Superior in Romania of the Order of Basilian Sisters and President of the Romanian Conferences of Superiors Major, Romania, October 8th 1999, to the Twelfth General Congregation of the Second Special Assembly for Europe of the Synod of Bishops, in the Vatican's Synod Hall.

The phrase "sweet Christ on Earth" is a quote of St. Catherine of Siena [1347-1380] who used the phrase in a letter to Pope Gregory XI-

[u]... I tell you, sweet Christ on earth, [/u]on behalf of Christ in Heaven, that if you do this, without strife or tempest, they will all come grieving for the wrong they have done, and lay their heads on your bosom. Then you will rejoice, and we shall rejoice, because by love you have restored the sheep to the fold of Holy Church. And then, sweet my father, you will fulfill your holy desire and the will of God by starting the holy Crusade, which I summon you in his name to do swiftly and without negligence. They will turn to it with great eagerness; they are ready to give their lives for Christ. Ah me, God, sweet Love! Raise swiftly, father, the banner of the most holy Cross and you will see the wolves become lambs. Peace, peace, peace, that war may not delay that happy time! ...

Source: SAINT CATHERINE OF SIENA VIRGIN, Letter to Gregory XI translated by Vida D. Scudder, 1906, from Lives of Saints, Published by John J. Crawley & Co., Inc., on EWTN's web site.[/quote]

Edited September 12, 2006 by Eutychus

[Budge]

[quote]

I am confused by what you mean by the gospel is not taught in the Church. My thinking is that of course it is because it is read at every mass followed by a homily on the readings. This does not seem to be what you are talking about.[/quote]

I never heard YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, in a Catholic church.

[size=4]Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[/size]

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Budge' post='1062179' date='Sep 13 2006, 07:15 PM']
I never heard YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN, in a Catholic church.

[size=4]Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[/size]
[/quote]
I was born again in baptism. I teach that same truth to all my PSR kids...

[Budge]

That is one Catholic belief, that makes me scared for all of you.

You cant assume that you entered into a relationship with Christ just because you had some water splashed on you as a baby.

I know it didnt make me born again. I wouldnt know Jesus Christ until my 30s.

As a baby if that is when you were baptized--majority of Catholics baptized at infancy...it is impossible that you became born again.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

it's not impossible, because it was the work of grace that made me born again, not something of myself.

my responsibility was to accept that grace as I could and respond to it.. which I did as I grew up and continue to seek the Lord's will for my life.