What I Learned In My Years In Catholic School

[Budge]

Since we are discussing poor catchization why not lay it on the table of what I actually learned?

I still own some of my religion texts from those days...my mother gave me a bunch of my old school papers and books about 10 years ago.

I believe my parents had extremely good intentions in sending me to Catholic school, after all I lived in an urban area at the time where the public schools were horrendous. Being Catholic they wanted me raised in the same religion.

I wasnt beaten by the nuns, you wont hear horror stories about them whipping out the ruler on me, since I was in school during the 70s. I remember most of the nuns as being nice, except for a few who were definitely disturbed like the nun, who I dont think ever should have been a teacher--who would sit and stare at the class when we were misbehaving sometimes for 20 minutes without saying a word.

The religion classes we had hourly, I got straight As in. Ironically by the age of 10, being a more percocious child who loved to read and was reading adult books, I was already reading books about atheism and witchcraft from the public library. I still remember the book by Thomas Paine that got me question the exsistence of god, it was an excerpt from an essay. Funnily enough The Late Great Planet Earth was on my reading list too, which even despite some of Lindsay's failings, planted some seeds in me via scripture.

[b]So there I was in Catholic school, basically a total agnostic, getting straight As in RELIGION Class.[/b]

So what did religion class consist of? I still own my religion books by the way, and have three of them, I just saw them not so long ago, arranging old papers and books.

[b]Vocabulary list after vocabulary list. [/b]

Define

Lectionary, Transubstantiation, list the seven sacraments, etc.
[b]
What does the CHURCH teach?[/b]

[b]Endless pages on church holidays.[/b]

let me grab a few titles here out of the 7th grade book: ."Christmas-Epiphany a time of Light", "Lent a Time for Changing" "Passion Sunday--a Time of Loyalty" "Holy Thursday-A Time of Love" "Advent a Time for Longing"

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Everything on the rituals, rites, and special days of Catholicism which to a kid are not life changing like the true gospel which sets even the young on fire, but as I remember being in the class boring beyond belief.

[b]Endless Pages on Saints.[/b]

Some that are extremly disturbing.

I learned that St. Thomas More, the guy who helped get many Christians put on the stake, "lived the truth in love"

I learned the creepy story about Maria Goretti..."making the right choice" This story was so creepy, especially being taught to 7th grade girls...

"In great pains from the wounds {stabbing} Maria whispered, "Alessandro wanted me to sin and I would not"

Ill save what I think of the disturbing messages being sent here to 7th graders for another time.

List and lists of other saints, writing book reports on bilocuting, stigmata, saints that really were nothing like people I knew or myself which only increased the notion that only the super duper ultra- fantastic, magical people go to heaven.

[b]Memorization of Prayers.[/b]

Never taught how to talk to God myself except in the most vague terms, one is taught rote prayers ranging from the Hail Mary to the Act of Contrition. The latter being a prayer I remember saying constantly while not really meaning it. If you dont know God you cant love Him in true repentance, you are merely saying some words.
[b]
Social Justice[/b]

Things like help the poor, give that extra allowance money to the church basket, work on the soup kitchen during lent, collect the dimes for the poor.

Not bad stuff but when it replaces the gospel leads no where. I noticed in the RE books of today, that is pushed even more so, with the message over and over that the United Nations can do no wrong. That was one thing that struck me about the books at my last Catholic church how they advanced the cause of GLOBALISM and the one world government over and over.
[b]
PRAY TO and ADORE Mary.[/b]

Every May was Mary's month, make the tissue paper flowers to be arranged around her statue. One teacher I had was obessed with Fatima: She taught about Jacinta and Lucia more then the math she had been hired to teach us. She flunked me when I told her I thought Mary of Fatima sounded mean.

[b]
Mass and everything centered on the church[/b]

Always listen to Father, Go to Mass, the sacraments and more. The Pope is always right, etc etc.

[b]Some good things about morality.[/b]..{ill admit that}

Wait for marriage etc....

But here's the problem......

Now did I learn the gospel?

Sure I knew about Jesus and fact he died for us, but really during all this, he really was just that poor "dead guy" who hung on the cross I remember feeling sorry for. He was the guy who appeared all bloody hanging on the giant crucifix in the hallway of my Catholic school, that scared me everytime I looked at it. {This being past Vatican 2, my school hadnt gotten around to cleaning all that stuff out yet}

I was never told the gospel. I learned what the gospel was when I was far far older, from Christians preaching to me. Thank God I learned the good news of salvation rather then putting my faith in rites, rituals and in the Catholic church.

I was an atheist/agnostic by a VERY YOUNG age. By age 10 I doubted what I was being taught in Catholic school, I saw Catholicism the same as all the Greek Myths they taught us in one class too, all fantasty and not reality.

Was this due to my own failings as a young child or due to the fact I had been given no Biblical foundation, and not really introduced to Who God truly is?

I thank God daily I have been able to come into a RELATIONSHIP with Him.

I Thank God daily I have been able to learn His Word as an adult, an amazing and wonderful thing!

Some of you may think Im being hard on you and the Catholic education system. Catholics mean well, they want to train their children in their religion, but the core is missing.

The Catholic Church long ago departed from Christ and elevated ITSELF as the way to salvation.

There's the problem.

Without the Holy Spirit there is no change in a person, no child will really come to love God.

[Winchester]

Endless pages....

A Miracle!

Personal opinion, nothing more.

Too much invective and editorializing.

So the stories of rape and suffering and damnation in the Bible wouldn't be creepy.

Buhweeet say "OTAY!!!"

[OLAM Dad]

This is an editorial, it belongs on Open Mic.

[Budge]

Wow when you folks really dont want to discuss something, you make that quite clear.

Was Catholic school that tough on you?...

Edited September 11, 2006 by Budge

[homeschoolmom]

Boy, that sounds nothing like my children's religion texts. Today we talked about God's promise to Abraham and Abraham's obedience even to the point of sacrificing his son, Isaac. We talked about how we, likewise, are called to obedience-- even if we don't understand.

[Budge]

Actually that sounds better, glad kids learned about that. It does mean following God in obedience.

However the main religion text in any Christian religion class, should be the BIBLE!

[homeschoolmom]

Well, yeah... we looked it up in the Bible... sheesh....

and while we are on the subject... we looked up bible verses for science (plants) and history (Israelites in Egypt) as well...

[Dave]

Seems to me Budge has already told on herself. She basically said she didn't get anything out of religion class. Well, Budge, it's obvious from what you've said that you didn't put anything INTO it!

[HollyDolly]

My parents went to Catholic schools as kids, but back in the 1920s and 30s.
They may not have gone to mass every Sunday,but they did believe in Jesus and God.
My dad went through WW2,and saw a lot of suffering and horror.He saw things like a poor Italian mother carrying her dead child in her arms,screaming and half the kids head blown away.So it was hard for him to accept what the Church in those days taught in regards to suffering so he would go to church for weddings and funerals but that's about it.He later returned to the church in his last years of life when he was sick.Momma didn't go to church much either.But they both wanted us to know the faith of our family.By the way,both dated non-Catholics.My mom never married Haralod.Why,because he was jewish and his family would have wanted her to convert.
Mary Rae,a lady my dad went with ,was Presbytarian.Her wealthy doctor father offered my dad money if he would leave the Catholic Church and join their faith. My dad told him that while he loved his daughter,he would never give up his faith for anyone.

My great aunts,his aunts in Hot Springs always had a picture of Jesus crowned with thorns on the wall.They gave money to the church,but they also tried to help anyone in need,not just once a week but any time.They tried to live by the Gospel.

By the way St.Thomas More didn't help get many christians put to the stake.He was a lawyer and Lord Chancellor to Henry the Eigth of England and a friend of Erasmus.He refused to sign the Act of Succession,and was thrown in the Tower of London.
When he was lead to the block,he said he died the king's good servant but God's first.
Blessed Margaret Plantagent Pole was the mother of Cardinal Reginald Pole and governess to Henry's daughter Mary Tudor.She was executed for political reasons by her cousin Henry the Eigth.
Both of them had children.There are a lot of saints who did not do crazystuff.Including modern ones. Like St.Louis Strattman a hungarian doctor and nobleman called in Hungary "The Doctor of the Poor". And there are others.
My great aunt was a School Sister of Notre Dame. One of her former students became a priest.She must have instilled in him a deep love of Our Lord Jesus, because why else would he have chosen to dedicate his who life to the Lord.

[Mercy me]

Budge, that is certainly not the first time that I have heard that. I am sorry that the Church has failed you. Although I am not currently a youth minister I have to say that I have seen this. Correct me if I am wrong what you are saying this that religion was a school subject and not much more. Sometime during your youth the 10 inch connection was not made, that being from your head to your heart. While I did youth ministry we dealt quite a lot with tying personal prayer and scripture to our life here and now. That means helping teens to strengthen and in some cases develop that personal deep seated relationship with our Lord Jesus. I have also found that parents while they mean well, often don't always have the foundation needed to share that relationship with their children. We had a separate ministry for the parents of our teens just for this reason - because it was needed. That deep personal relationship with our Lord is central to all that the Church teaches but we tend to assume that it is there and not focus on developing it in our kids. I think that this presupposition is the source of the problem.

This said, Budge I have read your posts and they do not reflect a knowledge of what the Church teaches.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060655' date='Sep 11 2006, 11:02 AM']


[b]Endless Pages on Saints.[/b]

Some that are extremly disturbing.

I learned that St. Thomas More, the guy who helped get many Christians put on the stake, "lived the truth in love"


[/quote]


SHHHH!!! Don't nobody tell Budge what the deal with St. Paul is. Budgie would have a heart attack to find out that he actually hunted down Christians to have them killed and even stood by and witnessed the stoning of Stephen.

Rat! I let it out of the bag....

Sorry budge - guess you have to throw out the rest of Paul's life too, since he did such horrible things. Oh wait...that latter part was where he wrote his epistles...guess ya gotta toss them too....

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1060780' date='Sep 11 2006, 02:11 PM']
Budge, that is certainly not the first time that I have heard that. I am sorry that the Church has failed you. Although I am not currently a youth minister I have to say that I have seen this. Correct me if I am wrong what you are saying this that religion was a school subject and not much more. Sometime during your youth the 10 inch connection was not made, that being from your head to your heart. While I did youth ministry we dealt quite a lot with tying personal prayer and scripture to our life here and now. That means helping teens to strengthen and in some cases develop that personal deep seated relationship with our Lord Jesus. I have also found that parents while they mean well, often don't always have the foundation needed to share that relationship with their children. We had a separate ministry for the parents of our teens just for this reason - because it was needed. That deep personal relationship with our Lord is central to all that the Church teaches but we tend to assume that it is there and not focus on developing it in our kids. I think that this presupposition is the source of the problem.

This said, Budge I have read your posts and they do not reflect a knowledge of what the Church teaches.
[/quote]

As a budding youth minister and a catachist, I have to agree. The Church, forgive us, has is the past, in some places, done a horrible job of linking the lesson with the life. I go out of my way to make sure when I teach the kiddos, it is not merely lists and memorization. I teach them the why? on everything as well. Whenever possible, I link the lessons learned to thier lives.

What about the Bible? Oh - that goes without saying. We use it extensively in class. After all, we wrote it...we need to be reading it.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Wait, wait, wait...

Budge said:
[quote]The [b]religion classes we had hourly[/b], I got straight As in.[/quote]
This makes no sense.

You took a break every hour for 5 minutes of religion class? Or was it 10 minutes? No wonder you lacked proper catechesis...


Perhaps just poor grammar (how often were your English classes?), but seriously, you learned nothing but that the Church teaches "endless pages on [insert something you have a problem with]"? That's not learning. Maybe you should've read those "endless pages" (which I'm sure had some end in sight).

[Aloysius]

yeah, definitely re-check your facts on St. Thomas More, the martyr who was killed for his religious conviction that the king of england could not divorce and remarry because Jesus and the pope forbade it.

your critique of Catholic school is interesting... but you make a logical leap when you cite this example as proof that the Catholic Church "long ago departed from Christ and elevated ITSELF as the way to salvation." Please tell me how that conclusion follows from the description of an education system designed to provide an alternative to state run schools with a Catholic basis.

There is room to learn every single one of the things you mentioned and still be infused with faith. None of the things you listed as learning are hindrances to faith. You are exactly right when you describe the Catholic School experience you had as lacking the CORE that it should have had-- a relationship with Jesus Christ.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1060673' date='Sep 11 2006, 12:52 PM']
Wow when you folks really dont want to discuss something, you make that quite clear.

Was Catholic school that tough on you?...


[/quote]
Yes, Catholic school was that tough on me. I went and got to hear about vocabulary, Church history, and social justice. While those things are okay in themselves, there was no life in the classes.

So I was pretty faithless when I entered high school, but I refused to give up my faith that had been so dear to me as a child. Then I slowly came to realize that I had been lied to. The things I had been told, the things I had been taught...that wasn't the Catholic faith...the Catholic faith, according to the Church and to all the saints and to the whole Tradition and the Scriptures, was about Jesus.

I'm now glad to be a much better formed Catholic. I just wish that you would listen when we tell you that you also have been lied to...you don't know what Catholicism really is, and you attack an empty shadow, while the real thing stands before you with open arms.

[Budge]

[quote]in some cases develop that personal deep seated relationship with our Lord Jesus. I have also found that parents while they mean well, often don't always have the foundation needed to share that relationship with their children. We had a separate ministry for the parents of our teens just for this reason - because it was needed. That deep personal relationship with our Lord is central to all that the Church teaches but we tend to assume that it is there and not focus on developing it in our kids. I think that this presupposition is the source of the problem.[/quote]

You do know I believe that Rome teaches another Christ.

If you actually lead any of those kids, to a saving personal relationship with Jesus Christ, instead of the wafer cosmic christ of Catholicism, I will guarantee you they wont stay Catholic for long.

Some Catholic young people do manage to find Christ, reading the Bible and going to events held by other Christians. In fact this planted seeds for me, I would end up UU, but made friends at a campus ministry many years ago where they preached the gospel to me. This happens most often in spite of Rome.


[quote]
SHHHH!!! Don't nobody tell Budge what the deal with St. Paul is. Budgie would have a heart attack to find out that he actually hunted down Christians to have them killed and even stood by and witnessed the stoning of Stephen.[/quote]

Hey why would I find St. Paul to be bad? I was a UU where anti-Chrsitianity is preached from the pulpits. "christ was an insane iternirant preacher" that was a favorite line of one of my latest UU minister.

God can forgive all sins. Even the worse evil person can repent and come to Jesus Christ.