Ann Coulter

[Era Might]

[quote]Second, war ISN'T always wrong. So, considering our resources are finite, I believe they should be directed towards pro-life work as the larger, more consistent, problem.[/quote]
You're missing the point. War IS a pro-life problem. "The battle for peace is always a battle for life" according to Pope John paul II.

Must we divert our energy away from euthanasia because we have to stand up against abortion? Technically, the elderly have a chance to live. If someone tries to kill them, they can fight back. That's more than you can say for the unborn.

[quote]Instead of spending my time, protesting something, which may or may not be acceptable (I don't have the information to make that decision), I'm going to involve myself in something I KNOW is abhorent -the murder 4,000 human being before they are born LEGALLY in this country EVERY day.[/quote]
I have the information. According to the Church, "War is always an attack on human life". That means when the United States went to war with Iraq, it decided to unleash an attack on human life. Whatever the intentions, when you go to war, you are saying, "We are ready and willing to kill the innocent to solve this problem". This is why the Church's doctrine of just war is framed around self-defense, as an absolute last ditch effort. Preemption is completely alient to the Church's moral theology. If Christians don't stand up and hold the government to the stringent standards of peace and life, then we have failed in our duty.

If you feel we don't have time to devote to anything but abortion, I guess I just have to say do what you feel is possible and right. I think we have time and resources to stand up about many things. About abortion. About war. About euthanasia. About gay marriage. About Liturgical abuse. And even about sports.

Unfortunately, we have left peace out of the equation as American Christians. We will have to stand before God and answer for that one day. He gave us the standard himself. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the earth".

[quote]At the same time we believe that you realize the need for creating a new mentality in regard to the relations between peoples-a mentality that does not admit recourse to war and weapons, but envisions civilization as the expression of justice and fraternal love.

--Pope Paul VI

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/speeches/1978/february/document/hf_p-vi_spe_19780204_collegio-difesa-nato_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/...sa-nato_en.html[/url][/quote]

Edited September 16, 2006 by Era Might

[Veritas]

"You're missing the point. War IS a pro-life problem. "The battle for peace is always a battle for life" according to Pope John paul II" Era

I agree with this, I think it's your method is problematic. For one thing, protesting in the streets is about being anti-Bush, not anti-war here in the Twin Cities --there is so much hate involved. Secondly, we must ask, "Where can I be the most effective in my fight for life? Where am I informed to protest?" Protesting this war is minimally effective, questionably appropriate, and majorly annoying.

"Should we divert our energy away from euthanasia because we have to worry about abortion? Technically, the old people have a chance to live. If someone tries to kill them, they can fight back. That's more than you can say for the unborn." Era

This is a good point. But, again, where can we be effective --yes we can be effective in the battle against euthanasia and it IS our place --it isn't a matter of national security.

Well, I have the information. According to the Church, "War is always an attack on human life". Era

Yes, but not "innocent" human life -- there is an important difference.

"That means when the United States went to war with Iraq, it decided to unleash an attack on human life. Whatever the intentions, when you go to war, you are saying, "We are ready and willing to kill the innocent to solve this problem". If Christians don't stand up and hold the government to the stringent standards of peace and life, then we have failed in our duty." Era

It is the government's job to provide national security. It's mine to support peace where I can, but not to undermine that effort.

"If you feel we don't have time to devote to anything but abortion, I don't know what to say. You do what you feel is possible and right. Personally, I believe we have time to worry about many things. About abortion. About war. About euthanasia. About homosexual "marriage". About Liturgical abuse. And even about sports. " Era

I don't think we should "worry" about anything, but pray for everythong (but perhaps that is semantics). I'm not saying we don't have time and energy for anything else, but I think we need to unite and prioritze.

"Unfortunately, we have left peace out of the equation as American Christians. We will have to stand before God and answer for that one day. He gave us the standard himself. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall inherit the earth". Era


Who's saying we're not peacemakers? I see it all the time. We're just not a bunch of hippies, who are insane about it -- wow that was an intelligent, intriguing, well- articulated statement I just made!

Edited September 16, 2006 by Veritas

[Era Might]

[quote]I agree with this, I think it's your method that is the problem for me. Protesting in the streets is about being anti-Bush, not anti-war here in the Twin Cities --there is so much hate involved.[/quote]
You don't have to protest in the streets. I don't think the march for life is a wild protest in the streets. It's a respectful march for life. The same can be done on behalf of peace.

[quote]Yes, but not "innocent" human life -- there is an important difference.[/quote]
No, it is an attack on innocent human life. It kills women, children, and other civilians who are not involved in the war.

[quote]It is the government's job to provide national security. It's mine to support peace where I can, but not to undermine that effort.[/quote]
The government is subject to the moral law.

[quote]I don't think we should "worry" about anything, but pray for everythong (but perhaps that is semantics). I'm not saying we don't have time and energy for anything else, but I think we need to unite and prioritze.[/quote]
Again, what force for peace is there in this country among orthodox Christians? We can't prioritize until we give peace some priority in the first place.

[quote]Who's saying we're not peacemakers? I see it all the time. We're just not a bunch of hippies, who are insane about it -- wow that was an intelligent, intriguing, well- articulated statement I just made! [/quote]
Some would say they're not a bunch of fundamenalists who are obsessed with abortion.

I am insane with innocent people being killed. I'll admit it. If bombs were dropping on my home and on my children, I don't know what I would do. but bombs are dropping on the children of other people. They just happen to live in another country, and it's my government dropping those bombs and killing those children and those women and those civilians.

But, we could go on and on about this. Maybe I need to take the initiative and start some kind of movement for peace among orthodox Christians instead of just diagnosing the problem. I'll think about that.

Peace. Good discussion.

[dspen2005]

biting...

[ardillacid]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1064119' date='Sep 16 2006, 08:44 AM']
Well I usually think political figures are fair game, and it's mostly sarcasm anyway. But come to think of it, I usually have to do a double take with most of you folks, becuase every time I get told that I'm a bad Catholic, and I don't think, act, or say what I should, I have to remind myself that its self-righteous hypocrites and not open minded compassionate people's words that I'm reading.

Needless to say, I think I'm done with Phatmass for a while.
[/quote]
A little bit off topic, but here is why online debates get so fired up. People can say things with no [i]repercussions[/i], things that people wouldn't dare to say face-to-face.

Anywho, play on

Edited September 16, 2006 by notardillacid

[Veritas]

[quote name='dspen2005' post='1064254' date='Sep 16 2006, 11:14 AM']
biting...
[/quote]

+

What does that mean?

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1064333' date='Sep 16 2006, 04:31 PM']
A little bit off topic, but here is why online debates get so fired up. People can say things with no [i]repercussions[/i], things that people wouldn't dare to say face-to-face.

[/quote]



[quote name='Veritas' post='1064378' date='Sep 16 2006, 05:42 PM']
+

What does that mean?
[/quote]

i was wondering the same thing.

[Era Might]

I think he's biting his tongue from responding to someone.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1064500' date='Sep 16 2006, 08:13 PM']

[/quote]
I don't really find it funny. Some of the things that are said in here would certainly result in physical confrontation if said face-to-face

[Era Might]

The Internet is like a pub. Anonymity is our deinhibitor.

And we, of course, are the inveterate alcoholics.

[XIX]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1064188' date='Sep 16 2006, 10:19 AM']
Ann coulter is correct in saying liberals are Godless, in many cases many of them are, because they have adopted a atheistic communist way of thinking and seeing things..

Such as their take on seperation of church and state..They have taken the seperation of church and state of the fathers and replaced it with the atheistic version...(meaning eradicate every influence the church has on society, images, everything.

As for me I will never accept liberalism, whatsoever

Liberals are like termites, they eat away at the foundation of society while saying "what do we do wrong". They hold up signs saying "hi i'm open minded, come on in satan".
[/quote]
I can't bring myself to claims that any group of people can be effectively labeled as Godless.

All of God's creatures have the potential to do good.











Except for bears. Bears are godless killing machines!!!

[FerociousBadger]

one time I made out with ann coulter, and then my teeth fell out of my head

[N/A Gone]

i dont care about the context of this thread...i just wanna disclaim..

phatty, my wife does NOT look like her.. get on facebook she has mucho pix.