Ann Coulter

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1063754' date='Sep 15 2006, 06:57 PM']
I didn't misunderstand. I just think the "joke" is tasteless and very indicative of what passes for discourse in the land of conservative punditry.

Abortion may be a "larger issue", but your limbs are torn the same way, whether someone drops a bomb on you or someone rips you from your mother's womb. The intention may be different, but the result is the same: innocent people being killed and devastated.
[/quote]

i agree.

but also, a little point here, we as citizens of the united states, think more about the less important things in this country then need be. abortion is on the list of the top 5 most discusting things in the u.s.!! and i think a lot of our energy needs to be on this particular issue then on things of less importance.

sorry, i kind of got off topic.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1063758' date='Sep 15 2006, 07:02 PM']i agree.

but also, a little point here, we as citizens of the united states, think more about the less important things in this country then need be. abortion is on the list of the top 5 most discusting things in the u.s.!! and i think a lot of our energy needs to be on this particular issue then on things of less importance.

sorry, i kind of got off topic.

[/quote]
I agree. I'm a huge enemy of abortion, and do what I can to speak out against it.

However, I disagree in one respect. Religious folks have done a very good job speaking out against abortion. But the devastation of war has gone over our heads. Pope John Paul was very vehement that the struggle for peace is always a struggle for life. Speaking out for peace, and against war, is very much a pro-life principle.

Because war is a issue with more flexibility than something like abortion, I think we've fallen into a certain American militarism, and it's hurting our witness for life. We pooh-pooh the Bishops for speaking out against war, but we forget that the world does exist outside of America. The Bishops of Iraq are as much Iraquis as we are Americans, and their people are being killed every day because of the war. We can't understand what that means, for your own people and nation to be devastated by war. We fight wars "over there" so that we won't have to fight it over here, or so that platitude goes. But that means that someone else's "over here" is being destroyed. As long as it isn't ours, out of sight, out of mind.

But, I started another thread talking about this, so I won't belabor the tangent here.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1063776' date='Sep 15 2006, 05:34 PM']
I agree. I'm a huge enemy of abortion, and do what I can to speak out against it.

However, I disagree in one respect. Religious folks have done a very good job speaking out against abortion. But the devastation of war has gone over our heads. Pope John Paul was very vehement that the struggle for peace is always a struggle for life. Speaking out for peace, and against war, is very much a pro-life principle.

Because war is a issue with more flexibility than something like abortion, I think we've fallen into a certain American militarism, and it's hurting our witness for life. We pooh-pooh the Bishops for speaking out against war, but we forget that the world does exist outside of America. The Bishops of Iraq are as much Iraquis as we are Americans, and their people are being killed every day because of the war. We can't understand what that means, for your own people and nation to be devastated by war. We fight wars "over there" so that we won't have to fight it over here, or so that platitude goes. But that means that someone else's "over here" is being destroyed. As long as it isn't ours, out of sight, out of mind.

But, I started another thread talking about this, so I won't belabor the tangent here.
[/quote]

+

Wow. My experience is totally different. How many tens of thousands of religious speak-out about war and are anti-war protestors? It seems like for the majority, that is WHAT they do --without hardly ever a reference to Christ. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever heard a homily address abortion directly (outside of EWTN) and I've been to dozens of different Catholic churches. The petitions for peace are always included at mass, the petition for an end to abortion, hardly ever --it drives me crazy. Since the Church doesn't speak definitively about particular wars, it makes sense they should have less of a focus. And, I'm sorry but the total number of individuals killed in Iraq is less than ONE day due to abortion and yet, everyone gets in a huff about the war, but ignores abortion. That is my experience in the RIDICULOUSLY blue Twin Cities.

Anti-war protestors here are usually just clinging on to another excuse to hate Bush because he is pro-life and pro-family, loves God, and isn't afraid of being known as a Christian. It's very, very, sad. Unless the Church pronounces definitively against it, I'm with the President. He has access and clearance I don't and if he thinks it's necessary --I trust him. Of course, no one wants to be at war --but sometimes, it's necessary for our protection. I'm sorry if you don't understand that.

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 15 2006, 04:57 PM' post='1063754']
I didn't misunderstand. I just think the "joke" is tasteless and very indicative of what passes for discourse in the land of conservative punditry.

+

Ann's making a point -rich liberals are hypocrites --you got that? That seems "tasteless"? Seems pretty accurate to me.

[Socrates]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1063596' date='Sep 15 2006, 02:48 PM']
Yes.
[/quote]
Hate is a sin.

(Gotta love all those libs, with their infinite love and tolerance . . . for everybody except those awful conservatives who dare disagree with them!)


BTW, this is a stupid and pointless thread.
To make a thread concerning a particular position or statement of Miss Coulter is one thing, but a debate thread over a particular [i]person[/i] is juvenile and pointless.
About all I'm seeing here is "Ann Coulter rules"/Ann Coulter smells of elderberries."
What would you think if somebody started a thread about "What do you think of 'catholicinsd' or 'zwergel88'?"
If you don't like Ann Coulter, don't buy her books or listen to her. It's not like she's in office, or running for office.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1063754' date='Sep 15 2006, 05:57 PM']
I didn't misunderstand. I just think the "joke" is tasteless and very indicative of what passes for discourse in the land of conservative punditry.
[/quote]
While liberals are all models of intelligent, tasteful, and utterly unbiased discourse?

[quote name='Era Might' post='1063776' date='Sep 15 2006, 06:34 PM']
We can't understand what that means, for your own people and nation to be devastated by war. We fight wars "over there" so that we won't have to fight it over here, or so that platitude goes. But that means that someone else's "over here" is being destroyed. As long as it isn't ours, out of sight, out of mind.
[/quote]
THe truth is that that part of the world is a savage and barbaric hell-hole, and was so before America entered into the scene. Most of the "innocents" killed there are not killed by American soldiers.

While one can argue for or against the war in Iraq (and there is a strong case against), I think the real question is whether the war is in the best interest of [b]Americans[/b]. America has the most to lose from the war.

But to think that if the Yanks went home, everything would become peace and happiness and joy in Iraq, with no more deaths and atrocities over there, is extremely naive, to say the least.

Edited September 16, 2006 by Socrates

[DAF]

I Anne Coulter. I would marry her if I weren't entering the seminary.

[Ora et Labora]

veritas: a have noticed that same issue!!! priests and bishops outside of EWTN (and thankfully my own parish priest) NEVER bring up the issue of abortion! people don't want to be told these things, even the Catholics who should be the ones hearing the most. so, the priests think it's okay to keep his flock blind and to tell them the world is honky dory!

[DAF]

OeL, thank God that those liberal fluffy air extractions are reitring and well, 'going home.' The majority of guys getting into the priesthood now are actually faithful to the Magisterium-radically, which is what we need, and really what should be the norm anyway. Of course there are that bunch that are only doing it because it looks like an adventure, but like I said, that's the exception, not the rule. Plus, seminary enrollment is on the upslope.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1063782' date='Sep 15 2006, 08:16 PM']While liberals are all models of intelligent, tasteful, and utterly unbiased discourse? [/quote]
No. They're all crabs in the same bucket.

[Veritas]

[quote name='DAF' post='1063796' date='Sep 15 2006, 06:23 PM']
I Anne Coulter. I would marry her if I weren't entering the seminary.
[/quote]

[Era Might]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1063782' date='Sep 15 2006, 08:16 PM']But to think that if the Yanks went home, everything would become peace and happiness and joy in Iraq, with no more deaths and atrocities over there, is extremely naive, to say the least.[/quote]
The yankes shouldn't have been there in the first place. No, they shouldn't go home now. They made the mess, and they have to clean it up.

If we listend to the Holy Father, however, we wouldn't have the blood of over a hundred thousand people on our hands.

Unjust killing will always take place. But when we go to war, we assume that mantle to say we are killing justly. Only we forget that when the bodies of those hundred thousand innocent people get added up. We have to kill them to get at their leader. We have to destroy a nation and real people's homes and lives to get at individual guerillas who hide there. It's like blowing up the Empire State Building during a work day to kill a few terrorists hiding inside.

[Era Might]

[quote]Wow. My experience is totally different. How many tens of thousands of religious speak-out about war and are anti-war protestors? It seems like for the majority, that is WHAT they do --without hardly ever a reference to Christ. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever heard a homily address abortion directly (outside of EWTN) and I've been to dozens of different Catholic churches. The petitions for peace are always included at mass, the petition for an end to abortion, hardly ever --it drives me crazy. Since the Church doesn't speak definitively about particular wars, it makes sense they should have less of a focus. And, I'm sorry but the total number of individuals killed in Iraq is less than ONE day due to abortion and yet, everyone gets in a huff about the war, but ignores abortion. That is my experience in the RIDICULOUSLY blue Twin Cities.[/quote]
My experience, personally and just by observation, is just the opposite. I'm very proud of the witness we have given in this country against abortion. I am speaking here of orthodox Christians, Catholic and otherwise. But I feel our witness when it comes to war is sorely lacking. Orthodox Christians have the march for life every year in Washington. Where is our march against war? War has been hijacked by the "left" of this country, religious and political. But authentic witness for peace is evident in the Bishops, and in the Pope especially, in a way that is lacking, in my opinion, in orthodox American Catholics. The reasons for that are varied.

[quote]I'm with the President. He has access and clearance I don't and if he thinks it's necessary --I trust him. Of course, no one wants to be at war --but sometimes, it's necessary for our protection. I'm sorry if you don't understand that.[/quote]
Well, I guess we have a fundamental divergence there. I have an inherent distrust of the government. As the Psalm says, "Place not your trust in princes".

And I understand that completely. I just don't think it's necessary right now at this point in history. Again, for varied reasons.

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='isilzha' post='1063591' date='Sep 15 2006, 03:41 PM']
If your best argument is throwing a pie at someone, that isn't saying much.
[/quote]

Well, Ann's best argument is to either not reply or change the subject.

[DAF]

I reject that premise. Anne is well known for her capacity and willingness to debate.

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='DAF' post='1063951' date='Sep 16 2006, 12:47 AM']
I reject that premise. Anne is well known for her capacity and willingness to debate.
[/quote]
On Fox News.