Jesus Is A Human Being(disconnect Line& Read

[jasJis]

[ayed, may we both gain knowledge of the One God who loves us and is All.

J-"Is it better to dare to say "God cannot do that, it is impossible!"

A-Allah can do it but I disagree with you in this point because Allah impossible to be THREE characters .That is, He has never ever Incarnates in three different characters.

There you go again. Claiming something is impossible for God. Think of family. Can one person be a family? Is a person in a family less of a person, or greater of a person because of family. If there are 3 people in a family, and I kill one person, did I just not harm the other two even if I did not touch them? Is the family destroyed? God is more than 1 person, but is only 1 Being a little like a human family, but not limited to the human traits of a human family.

If it was true that he was a god who was beaten, insulted and crucified, and died, then this doctrine contains elements of blasphemy because it accuses God of weakness and helplessness.

It is your idea that God is accused of weakness and helplessness. It is the Christian knowledge that what humans think may be weakness and helplessness is Strength and Power of God. If humans were to light a bush with fire, the bush would burn up. If God lights a bush with fire, the bush gives heat and light yet does not burn. Humans look at a bush burning and think the bush is weak and will be destroyed by fire. In God, the fire gives light, heat, yet does not destroy the bush yet the bush fees the fire? Mysterious and Great is the Power of God who is All in All.

Is God really incapable of forgiving the sins of all His servants with just one word? If He is Able to do all things (and the Christians do not dispute this fact), then why would He need to sacrifice His son in order to achieve the same thing? (Glorified and exalted be He far above what the wrongdoers say about Him!)

God is cabable of forgiving all sins with a word and without sacrifice, but He chooses not to. Man can not fathom the was of God. God let us know that He is God of All Justice and God of All Mercy. It's up to Him how He dispenses Mercy and Justice to us mere humans. God Chose to put a value on Humans. God loves us because He chooses to, not because we derserve it. God's self sacrifice through His Son was not because He needed it, it was because God choose to show us how Loved we are, how Powerful is His Love, how amesome is His Power that He can experiecne our death and create Eternal Life with it.

As far as sacrificing a son, what about Issac? God asked if Abram would sacrifice his son, and Abram would, but God stopped him and gave Abram a sacrificial animal. God wants us to honor Him with Sacrifice, but God gives us the Sacrificial Lamb, His own Son.

Edited July 29, 2003 by jasJis

[Hermione]

Thank you, bro~ ;)

[TempleofVesarius]

My God has two natures...two is better than one

[Winchester]

And fire is returned.

Charge!

[Joyful]

Nevermind

Edited July 30, 2003 by Joyful

[hyperdulia again]

This man came here called God a human and Saint Paul a liar. Catholic4ever was much nicer than I would have been.

There is one God.

He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

All others are demons who have risen up from the pit of Hell.

Muslims worship that one God they just do it really badly.

[ironmonk]

We have to start from the beginning if we are to dialog.

Fact: Muslims look at the NT as we Christians look at the OT.

Fact: Muslims look that the koran as we Christians look at the NT.

Fact: If the koran was true, then it would not contradict the NT & OT.

Fact: God does not contradict Himself.

If you do not have these facts, you will never understand the answers to your questions.

Use your head my friend. You seem pretty smart.

How can the koran be true if it Contradicts the NT & OT... and the koran says that the NT & OT are works of God?

ayed, Jesus died for you. He suffered for you. He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament Scriptures.

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Everyone should read what the Catechism says about Muslims.

We should see Christ in them.

"For whosoever does for the least of my breathern, does for me."

Ring a bell... The least of Christ's breathern is the man that is farthest removed from Christ... In otherwords, everyone on the face of this earth is Brethern of Christ even if they do not know it.

It's not his fault he's muslim. God brought him here for a reason. It's not his fault that he was taught wrong.

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sec...chpt3art9p3.htm

841

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842

The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . .331

843

The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[Joyful]

Thanks Ironmonk for your kind informative post.

Edited July 30, 2003 by Joyful

[hyperdulia again]

you hadn't been here for long hon'.

[dUSt]

Catholic4ever,

Your comments were deleted. Please do not post personal attacks. This section of the phorum welcomes debates, but they must remain civil.

[cantstopdancin9]

Hi

Ok, normally I just sit back and watch and learn but I really don't understand some things about Muslims and the Koran. I haven't really read much into the faith, but from what I understand, there are lots of things that just don't make sense in the Koran. For instance, I think that they refer to Mary as holy (correct me if I'm wrong) which is normal for us, but normally other faiths don't give her that kind of credit. There are lots of other things that I can't think of right now, but I have heard of Muslims who have converted to Catholicism because they have discovered these things and found the truth. This probably won't help you explain things very much because I haven't gone into it real deep but I'll post this anyways.

[ayed]

thank you all of you who spent his muh time to debate.

Anyone who written some bd words or some attcks on. I say again, hang your hat .i will not pat attention to that nor can you divert attention of our dear members or visitors .

whatsoever someone says or attacks, it does not bother me .

ironmok:

"ayed, Jesus died for you. He suffered for you. He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament Scriptures"

A-I am a muslim, praise be to Allah, I am not in need of a messnger who is right now at His heaven. alive not dead.

1-If you , inronmonk believe Jesus(peace be upon him) died.Then, you have the follwoing:

The Father.

The Holy spirit.

the Jesus died which leads to :

3-1=2

If you believe in Jesus as God , why did he die?

a God dies for you or for me?

where is immortality?eternal?

If we take it for granted that he(Jesus) died , won't you die ? won' I die?

If you believe that then,

Jesus=human being flesh and blood

jesus=you and me

thank you

and be redy to another questions

(*)special thank to our Moderator ho organized this debate and sif up what was writtn

[Chrysologus]

It is the ultimate act of God's love for us that he would become like us, suffer like us, and die like us. But on the third day he rose again. It was God's ultimate act of humility and mercy to choose to come down to meet his creation and live side-by-side them. Since our own words are of little avail here, let me quote the great Saint Paul, who, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote:

Have among yourselves the same attitude that is also yours in Christ Jesus,

Who, though he was in the form of God,

did not regard equality with God something to be grasped.

Rather, he emptied himself,

taking the form of a slave,

coming in human likeness;

and found human in appearance,

he humbled himself,

becoming obedient to death,

even death on a cross.

Because of this, God greatly exalted him

and bestowed on him the name

that is above every name,

that at the name of Jesus

every knee should bend,

of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that

Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

- Philippians 2:5-11

We cannot convince of you this truth and we are thankful that you believe in the Unity of God if not the Trinity of God. We are merely workers in God's field. Hopefully we can sow a seed, but it is God who will make it grow.

[Hermione]

ayed,

this question is existential, rather than religious, don't you think? In fact, I can ask you something along the same lines- what makes you think you are alive now? It's the same Romanticist idea that our dreams may be real life and vice versa(Baudrillard).

"What if you slept? And what if, in your sleep, you dreamed?

And what if, in your dream, you went to heaven and there

plucked a strange and beautiful flower? And what if, when you

awoke, you had the flower in your hand? Ah, what then?" -Coleridge

In similar fashion, we Christians believe in the existence of a "body" and a "soul", the soul being the unfathomable mystery (as is the Trinity). We believe our present selves to be no more than a preparation for the glory of eternal life in heaven, where our souls thrive even when our bodies have passed away. (Correct me if I'm wrong, guys). So even if we appear alive right now, the fact is, we might be dreaming, or in hell, or in Limbo... but through faith and the scriptures, the above is what we believe is true.

Jesus (yes, God) humbled himself by becoming one of us, to be close to us, even though he could have stayed in Heaven and I don't know... burn a couple more bushes...? but it was a more personal touch, wouldn't you say? And we're glad to have experienced his coming through the NT. We don't believe that he died per se, but rather, we believed that it was just his time to go back.

Hope that helps~