Jesus Is A Human Being(disconnect Line& Read

[ayed]

thank you for all who welcomed me in this forum.

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In the name of Allah , the Most merciful , the Most gracious

I believe in One only God(Allah) the Omnipotent, the Omnipresent, the Oneness Who Is On His Throne Over the Seventh Heaven .I bear witness that prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him)is His slave and His last messenger.

As for Iesa(Jesus) is a human being and a messenger who was sent to teach his people a divine message as other messengers . We, Muslims, believe in Iesa(Jesus) as much as Muhammad , Moses, Gabriel etc…(peace be upon them).

As for Iesa(jesus) , He is a human being blood and flesh NOT God as considered by some people.

"The Scriptures teach that Jesus was fully God while also being fully human. Paul declared of Jesus, "For in Him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9). Because Jesus is both fully God and fully man, He stands in a unique relationship in the Trinity to the Father and the Holy Spirit." (Jesus: A Biblical Defense of his Deity, Josh McDowell & Bart Larson, Campus Crusade For Christ, 1983, pg 65).

"The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." This Pauline fabrication is so well embedded in today's teachings of Christianity, "Jesus is God", or "Jesus is Lord" is the number one motto. It is claimed that "Jesus shares the nature of God, and he is in every way like God. "

In the next few pages we will replace the word "Jesus" with "God". This will illustrate the inherent contradiction in the Athanasian Creed quoted above. Our intention is not to insult anyone; but rather to invite Christians to reflect on the Bible and follow Jesus Christ, Son of Mary, so that Jesus will not denounce them (Matthew 7:23). As you see, the doctrine of Trinity, which was fabricated by Paul, and influenced the authors of the Gospels is an insult to God Almighty and to the intelligence of men.

The Birth of "God"

"God" was created from the seed of David: "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." (Romans 1:3)

The ancestors of "God": "The generations of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew 1:1)

The sex of "God": "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus." (Luke 2:21)

How Mary conceived and delivered "God": "The days were accomplished that she should be delivered," (Luke 2:6). "And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Revelation 12:2)

"God" sucked the paps of a woman: "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked." (Luke 11:27)

The country of "God": Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king." (Matthew 2:1)

The occupation of "God": "Jesus was a carpenter by trade (Mark 6:3), and the son of a carpenter." (Matthew 13:55)

The transport of "God": "Behold, the King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an arse." (Matthew 21:5). "And Jesus, when he had found a young arse, sat thereon." (John 12:14)

The wining and dining "God": " The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:34)

The poverty of "God": "And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." (Matthew 8:20).

"God" was a devout Jew: "And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed." (Mark 1:35)

The Family of "God"

"God" was the son of Joseph: "... Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." (John 1:45)

Brother of "God": "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." (Galatians 1:19 and Matthew 13:54-56)

Mother of "God": "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, ..." (John 19:25)

The Development of "God"

Spiritual development of "God": "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom." (Luke 2:40)

Mental and moral development of "God": "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, . . ." (Luke 2:52)

The confession and repentance of "God": Before the beginning of his public ministry, "Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:13), which signified the confession of sins (Matthew 3:6), and repentance from sins (Matthew 3:11).

"God" was twelve years old when his parents took him to Jerusalem: "Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. and when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast." (Lk. 2:41-42)

The powerless "God": Jesus said, "I can of mine own self do nothing." (John 5:30)

"God" was ignorant of the hour: Jesus said, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)

"God" was ignorant of the season: "And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet." (Mark 11:12-13)

"God" was unlettered: "Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?" (John 7:14-15)

"God" learned through experience: "Learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." (Hebrews 5)

The Tempting Of "God"

The devil tempted "God" continuously: "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season." (Luke 4:13)

The devil tempted "God" for 40 days: "And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan." (Mark 1:12-13)

Like the sinners, "God" was tempted in all things: " But (he) was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

True God cannot be tempted with evil: "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempeth he any man." (James 1:13)

Only the ungodly are tempted with evil: "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own last, and enticed." (James 1:14)

The Racial "God"

God" was a tribal Jew: "The Lion of the tribe of Juda." (Revelation 5:5)

"God" came for the Jews only: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)

Racial discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)

The kingdom of "God": "And he (Jesus) shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." (Luke 1:33)

The titles of "God": "The King of the Jews". (Matthew 2:2); "The King of Israel". (John 1:49; 12:13)

A "God" Unlike the God

A hungry "God": "Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered." (Matthew 21:1)

"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark 11:12)

A thirsty "God": "(He) saith, I thirst." (John 19:2)

A sleepy "God": "He was asleep." (Matthew 8:24). "He fell asleep." (Luke 8:23). "And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow." (Mark 4:3)

A weary "God": "Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well." (John 4:6)

A groaning "God": " He groaned in the spirit, and was troubled." (John 11:33). "Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave." (John 11:3)

A weeping "God": "Jesus wept." (John 11:35)

A sorrowing "God": "And (he) began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." (Matthew 26:37-3)

A hysterical "God": "And (he) began to be sore amazed and to be very heavy." (Mark 14:33)

A weak "God": "And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him." (Luke 22:43)

The "God" of war: Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

A "God" cursing a tree: "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward forever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (Matthew 21:19)

A "God" who did not want to be called "good": "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God." (Matthew 10:1)

A "God" who was servant of God: "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles." (Matthew 12:1)

A "God" who was prophet of God: "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:" (Luke 24:19)

The "God" On the Run

"God" was panic-stricken: "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John 7:1)

"God" walked in fear of the Jews: "Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews." (John 11:53-54)

"God" has shown a clean pair of heels: "Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand." (John 10:39)

"God" fled in disguise: "At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (John 8:59)

The Capture of "God"

A friend betrayed the hiding place of "God": "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus oft-times resorted thither with his disciples. Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." (John 18:2-3)

"God" was arrested, bound and led away: "Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him, and led him away." (John 18:12-13)

"God" was humiliated: "And the men that hold Jesus mocked him, and smote him. And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face." (Luke 22:63:64). "Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands." (Matthew 26:67)

"God" was defenseless: "One of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand", he said, "Why smitest thou me?" (John 18:22-23)

"God" was condemned to death: "And they all condemned him to be guilty of death." (Mark 14:64). "They answered and said, He is guilty of death" (Matthew 26:66).

The dumb and docile "God": "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth" (Acts 8:32).

The cursed "God" by God: "Christ had redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hanged on a tree" (Galatians 3:13).

The End of "God"

The dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost" (Mark 15:37).

The dead "God" : "Christ died" (Romans 5:6). "He was dead" (John 19:33).

The corpse of "God": "He (Joseph) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." (Matthew 27:5)

The shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew 27:59)

The verses that we have quoted from the New Testament leaves no doubt that Jesus was a human being like us, he neither shared the nature of God nor was he in every way like God. But, he was selected by God Almighty as a messenger to confirm the message of previous messengers which can be summarized in a single statement: "Worship God Alone."

But the zealot followers of the "Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee" (The Acts 23:6) will still try to make Jesus an incarnated God. To prove their claim, they show several distorted or mistranslated verses , see my other post. They sometimes shock you with bizarre interpretations dear brothers. They mention miracles of Jesus without thinking about miracles of previous messengers (Exodus 7:10; 2 Kings 13:21 etc.). They try to create the doctrine of Trinity from the birth of Jesus, forgetting that Adam was created without father and mother (I Corinthians 15:45; I Timothy 2:13), and that Sarah gave birth to Isaac while she was barren (Genesis 11:30; 17:17-19).

A divine oxymoron :

Many qualities of God and human being are just the opposite, like day and night. While God, by definition, is Omnipresent, human being is not. God is Omnipotent, human being is not. God is Omniscient, the human being is not. God is the Creator, the human being is His creation. God is perfect, but the human being is not. God knows the future, but the human being does not. Thus, one cannot be both God and human. Oxymora are used in art and literature for special effect. However, clergy has based its entire teaching on a divine oxymoron similar to Hermes, Pan, Poseidon and Aphrodete of Greek mythology.

1-Was Jesus a "human God" or a "God human"? Was he acting like humans while he was Lord, or was he acting like God while he was a human?

2-Can you show me a single unequivocal statement in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God, or where he says "worship me?" (Mark 13:32; John 14:28; 1 Corin 15:2)

. Why are the verses that I quoted above not enough to convince you that Jesus was a human prophet?

4. How do you explain the obvious contradiction between Mark 1:12-13; Luke 4:13; Hebrews 4:15 which claim that Jesus was tempted by Satan and James 1:13 which claims that "God cannot be tempted with evil"? Furthermore, what about "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James 1:14)? Was Jesus drawn away of his own lust, and enticed?

5. What kind of divine wisdom do you find in cursing a fig tree which could not give fruit before the season? What was the crime of that tree?

6. Did Mary give birth to "God"? Then, according to this information Mary was the mother of God (as the Catholic church still officially say in its liturgy here where I life), and at the same time the creation of God! Can you accept this "logic" ?

7. Was Jesus created? If your answer is "no," then Jesus was not a human; if your answer is "yes," then he was not God

8. You claim that Jesus was a perfect man. A man can never be perfect. God is the only perfect one. If he was a perfect man, for instance, he should have demonstrated an examplary matrimony. Is marriage a satanic institution?

9. Jesus was exercising his so-called divine power anytime he wanted or needed. Was he still fully human

I beg your pardon if I unintentionally have made such annoying mistakes or slipslops.

Thanks for all . :lol:

Edited July 26, 2003 by ayed

[Chrysologus]

These are all quickly and easily refuted by stating that Christ is both fully God and fully man. His human body and soul were created, but his divine nature was not. It should be no surprise then that he shares all the characteristics of humans: being born of a woman, having gender, having ancestors, and all other human traits. Yet he also displayed his divinity many times in the Bible performing miracles and even claiming, "Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58). The Jews picked up stones to stone him for calling himself God; they knew exactly what he meant. Jesus cannot be only a prophet because a prophet doesn't call himself God. Jesus is either Lord, a lunatic, or a liar, but not just a prophet like Abraham and Moses.

[benedict_x]

The Divinity of Christ

Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he "called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" or "Yahweh." His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus "[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

The Trinity

The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

In this passage, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are said to share one name (notice that the term "name" is singular, not plural), and that name is almost certainly Yahweh, the personal name of God in the Bible. We know this because the name Yahweh is applied to both the Father and the Son in the New Testament.

Peter tells us, "David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies a stool for your feet.’ Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified" (Acts 2:34–36). Here God is "the Lord" who speaks to "my Lord," Jesus. When one looks at the Old Testament quotation, one finds, "Yahweh says to my Lord: ‘Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool’" (Ps. 110:1); so here the Father is called Yahweh.

In Philippians 2:10–11, we read: "[A]t the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." This is a reference to Isaiah 45:18–24, which tells us: "I, Yahweh, speak the truth . . . I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn. . . . To me every knee shall bow, every tongue confess. ‘Only in Yahweh,’ it shall be said of me, ‘are righteousness and strength.’ " Here Paul applies the prophecy of every knee bending and every tongue confessing to Jesus, resulting in the prophecy that they will "confess that Jesus Christ is Yahweh." The stress on Christ as God is also picked up by the early Church Fathers (e.g., Ignatius, below).

Jesus himself declares that he is Yahweh ("I AM," in English translation). In John 8:58, when questioned about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." His audience understood exactly who he was claiming to be. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

With the personal name of God, Yahweh, being applied to both the Father and the Son, it is almost certainly applied to the Spirit, and thus to all three members of the Trinity.

The parallelism of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit is not unique to Matthew’s Gospel, but appears elsewhere in the New Testament (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14, Heb. 9:14), as well as in the writings of the earliest Christians, who clearly understood them in the sense that we do today—that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three divine persons who are one divine being (God).

Taken from www.catholic.com

One of the dangers of non-catholics picking up the bible is that they tend to take qoutes and exclusively use them out of context. This is how the reformation came about and that was a whole load of mess that Luther got us into beacsue he quoted out of context and did not understand the bible. I would suggest to anyone who is non-catholic to read the other books that clearly and safely interprets the bible for them and provides insights of the christain fiath in order to clearly understand what we pratice. catholic.com provides a really good insight to our faith insted of taking cheap potshots.

1-Was Jesus a "human God" or a "God human"? Was he acting like humans while he was Lord, or was he acting like God while he was a human?

A: He was both God and man.

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

2-Can you show me a single unequivocal statement in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God, or where he says "worship me?" (Mark 13:32; John 14:28; 1 Corin 15:2)

A:"When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17).

Honestly. If God would say "Worship me" that would mean that He's giving a direct order and that just disporves the "Free Will" that we have.

3-Why are the verses that I quoted above not enough to convince you that Jesus was a human prophet?

A: Look above for my answer.

4. How do you explain the obvious contradiction between Mark 1:12-13; Luke A:13; Hebrews 4:15 which claim that Jesus was tempted by Satan and James 1:13 which claims that "God cannot be tempted with evil"? Furthermore, what about "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James 1:14)? Was Jesus drawn away of his own lust, and enticed?

A: If you read the full version, you'd see that Satan TRIED to tempt Jesus and it didnt work at all therefore it just proves the James verse true.

5. What kind of divine wisdom do you find in cursing a fig tree which could not give fruit before the season? What was the crime of that tree?

A: Prove that when Jesus approached the fig tree it was out of season. The divine wisdom in cursing the fig tree was to show how God would deal punishment to people who could spread the word of salvation (ie fruits) but refused to do so.

6. Did Mary give birth to "God"? Then, according to this information Mary was the mother of God (as the Catholic church still officially say in its liturgy here where I life), and at the same time the creation of God! Can you accept this "logic" ?

A: I dont understand this question. My mom gave birth to me so you're saying I was not created by God? Where's the logic in THAT?

7. Was Jesus created? If your answer is "no," then Jesus was not a human; if your answer is "yes," then he was not God

A: No. Jesus is the Begining and the End. All I have to say is that my God is a God that can do anything He wants to as He is Almighty. If He wanted to come down as man and save us all from eternal punishment, who am I to say no to such great a gift?

8. You claim that Jesus was a perfect man. A man can never be perfect. God is the only perfect one. If he was a perfect man, for instance, he should have demonstrated an examplary matrimony. Is marriage a satanic institution?

A: No man is perfect. And since Jesus is God who took the form of man, Jesus is perfect.

9. Jesus was exercising his so-called divine power anytime he wanted or needed. Was he still fully human?

A: Jesus was both God and man

PAX

[God Conquers]

1. Jesus is FULLY God and Fully Man. Do you believe this is not possible? Does God have limits or is He all powerful?

2.Luke 5:20-26 : Jesus claims the ability to forgive sins. Only God may do this. Jesus claims He is equal with God. Only God is equal with God.

Mark 14: 61-64: Jesus calls Himself I AM, the name of God. Jesus says He deserves the same honour due to God.

John 14: 6-7 : Jesus says He is the way to eternal life. Jesus says He gives life (only God can give life). Jesus says he is One with the Father.

John 10:24, 30-33 : Jesus says He is One with God, He says He is equal with God.

John 8: 51-59 : Jesus Says He gives Life, Jesus says He deserves the same honour due to God, Jesus calls Himself I AM

John 5: 21-23 : Jesus says He deserves the same honour due God, says He gives life.

3. Jesus was human, there is no doubt about that from the verses you quoted.

4. God can not be tempted, but man can. Jesus was both, this is clear from scripture.

5. Please clarify.

6. Mary did give birth to God, God and Man. God was not CREATED when concieved in Mary, He was INCARNATED. He came into this world as fully flesh and blood and fully man. God existed as Father, Son and Holy Spirit for all eternity.

7. Jesus was begotten. This is entirely different than created. Man can beget man, he can not create him. God can beget God, and God can create man.

8. Yes. He is God, and is Perfect. So He

9. God is Perfect. As Christ He used His Divine Power in perfect Love, Justice, Mercy, according to His Will, in order that we might all be saved.

[Anna]

Pardon me,

But this is a Catholic phorum.

You don't need to quote Josh McDowell, a Protestant, to us. He can teach us nothing new about Christ. We receive our teaching from the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, which was founded by Christ Himself.

Perhaps your observations on the alleged falsehood of Catholicism (and Christianity in general) would be better posted on a Muslim forum, where you will no doubt find agreement.

Here, we gather to discuss and share our Faith, not defend It. There is no need to defend Holy Mother Church here, because as I understand it, it is against phorum rules to defy Church Teachings. You've defied several.

If you'd like clarifications on our beliefs, ask.

If you want to accuse St. Paul of "fabricating" the divinity of Jesus, I suggest you take your heresies elsewhere.

We don't regard Mohammed as a prophet; he need not be praised. God's last prophet on earth was St. John the Baptist.

All praise and glory be to Jesus Christ, the God Man, Our Lord and Savior. For God so loved the world, that He gave His Only Son.

May the Peace of Christ be with you. <><

Edited July 27, 2003 by Anna

[hyperdulia again]

"Rock on gorgeous woman!"---Stevie Nicks

[Anna]

"Rock on gorgeous woman!"---Stevie Nicks

Just one more reason why I love hyperdulia again. :wub:

Pax Christi. <><

[hyperdulia again]

:lol:

:wub:

[ironmonk]

mohammed, a man who was studying the Catholic faith and the Jewish.

A man who wanted to be like Christ.

A man who wanted to be like Christ so much, he went into the desert for 40 days, to imitate Christ.

Being just a man, mohammed hallucinated or was deceived by the devil.

For the Old Testament and New Testament to be Inspired Works of God, then the koran is a lie. The koran cannot be true. Muslims look at the OT and NT as works of God, but the OT & NT deny the koran.

For the koran to be true, then the OT and NT must be false, but the muslim faith sees the OT and NT as true works of God...

Therefore, the koran is in error. If the koran is in error, then it cannot be a work of God.

If you believe in God, then start at the beginning. The Old Testament... Then the New Testament. No other revelation will come until the Second Coming of Christ.

Jesus is God.

We welcome you to learn the Truth.

As our Church teaches us;

The Church and non-Christians

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sec...chpt3art9p3.htm

839

"Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ";328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840

And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

842

The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . . .331

843

The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844

In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845

To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary,

ironmonk

Edited July 27, 2003 by ironmonk

[Winchester]

That may have been the longest theological non sequitur I've ever read.

[Katholikos]

To believe Islam, I would have to believe that God hated the feminine half of his creation, and favored the masculine, which is absurd. The veneration of the Blessed Virgin Mary as taught by the Catholic Church has done more for the equality of women in the world than any other factor.

A man can have four wives, and divorce any of them by simply announcing "I divorce you." Women have no rights under Islam, but are considered chattal. Woman wearing burkas where it's 120 degrees is oppressive.

Consider the pictures we see of men at prayer in mosques. Where are your women? Not allowed, not permitted, no way. God doesn't like women.

The bull-oney many our politicians have mouthed since 9/11 about Islam being a religion of peace is unhistorical and untrue. Islam was spread by the sword and continues to wield the sword to this day.

There were death threats against Rushdie simply for writing something critical of Islam in his book, Satanic Verses ; he was forced into hiding. People are maimed for being accused of theft, as we were reminded by what we saw this week on TV. Retaliation, not forgiveness, is the "virtue" in Islam.

Some God, some religion. The description of heaven in the Koran is more like a brothel.

Read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis for enlightenment about the person of Jesus Christ and the Trinity.

The Americans who have become Muslims have been deceived.

No, thanks.

[benedict_x]

*clap clap*

Katholikos rocks!

[nippy316]

Oh my....did I really just read what I read?? Am I on the right board??

Here, we gather to discuss and share our Faith, not defend It.  There is no need to defend Holy Mother Church here, because as I understand it, it is against phorum rules to defy Church Teachings. 

You've defied several.

Thanks Anna....I wouldn't know where to start.

Edited July 27, 2003 by nippy316

[mulls]

Here, we gather to discuss and share our Faith, not defend It. There is no need to defend Holy Mother Church here, because as I understand it, it is against phorum rules to defy Church Teachings. You've defied several.

then why am i allowed here?

Ghandi was famous for saying something like "If all Christians really acted the way they were supposed to, then I would become one."

let's show some charity here.

[cmotherofpirl]

This is the debate forum, so of course debate is allowed.

THink of all the fun debates we have had in the past!

Dust specifically asked for people to debate, well now they are here. We are called to evangelise and defend our faith daily, that is the mandate of a Catholic.

CAtholics should not post anything that openly defies the Church, but obviously our guests are not Catholic.

How can we convert if we shut down the conversation?