Next Time You Go To Confession

[Era Might]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1058015' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:16 PM']man our Church is so devious... gives people the option to come during a mass offering of confession, kneel behind a screen, disguise their voice if they want to, and they're still somehow getting everyone's secrets out and blackmailing them for it [/quote]
I like to wear a "Scream" mask and disguise my voice as James Earl Jones. But that's just me.

[img]http://www.cine-studies.net/scream_1.jpg[/img]

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An actual picture of me in Church just before Confession.

[Budge]

[quote]
Do you confess your sins to a "1000 people", let alone one, or any at all?[/quote]

No.

I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.



[quote]Hey Budge! I'm willing to hear your confession. Do you want to do it here, or send me an e-mail privately? I promise I will be as helpful and constructive as God graces me to be.[/quote]

Are you a priest?

I dont need your services.

I have true Christian fellowship in which to share my sins in. I much perfer this rather then to some yawning man following a script.

I do not need a man to forgive my sins...

Hbr 4:16 [size=4]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy[/size], and find grace to help in time of need.
Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart.


Saying 10 Hail Marys isnt going to change anyone's heart and is a waste of time.
[quote]

confessions between friends and brother christians are great, but they do not fulfill Christ's requirements for a confessor (that he holds the power to retain the sins, and that the confessing person would respect that apostle of the Lord if he were to say that his sins were retained or if he were to say that thos sins were forgiven)[/quote]

The power to retain sins, was given to all born again Christians, not just a special elite cadre of priests.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058027' date='Sep 6 2006, 04:36 PM']
I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.

[color="#CC0000"]Since you do not recognize our Priest for what they are, are we not just confessing our sins to a fellow Christian? And he confesses his sin to another fellow Christian (another Priest) ect...[/color]


Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart.
[color="#CC0000"]?[/color]


I do not need a man to forgive my sins...
[/quote]
Then why confess them to your fellow Christians?

[Budge]

For edification, prayer and support

And its a true exchange too, not scripted to death, not rote. A REAL conversation. Not a job. Not some guy hoping youll hurry up, because there are 10 others waiting in line and he's got Mass to get ready for in 20 minutes.

Christian fellowship is important in a born again believer's life.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058027' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:36 PM']
I confess them to fellow Christians as they confess them to me, and that is the way it is to be done.[/quote]Is not a priest a fellow christian? Then we, too are following your method. The difference being that we are taking a more strict and careful approach. The ability to retain anonimity in confession(by confessing to a priest who will take what is told them to the grave) helps to encourage one to be sure to confess EVERYTHING and to not be too embarassed or ashamed to admit certain sins. Do you confess every sin you commit to your friends and family?

[quote]
I have true Christian fellowship in which to share my sins in. I much perfer this rather then to some yawning man following a script. [/quote]Is that your reasoning? You do it that way because you prefer it? Sorry to sound rude, but that is a horrible reason. NEVER adapt your faith to meet your personal preference and habits. Adapt your habits so that they will not violate your faith.

[quote]I do not need a man to forgive my sins...[/quote]
I'd need some help on how to exactly word this, but Catholics believe that the priest is the temporary earthly representation of God. A conduit for speaking to God if you will. And thus, by confessing to a priest, we are in turn confessing to God, who will forgive.

I must clarify - no, we do not believe that the priest is God. I fear my wording is badly presented.

[quote]Hbr 4:16 [size=4]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy[/size], and find grace to help in time of need.[/quote]
Could you be so kind as to explain what that has to do with confessing sins? If you wish to interpret the bible as literally as possible, then this line cannot possible have anything to do with confessing sins.
[quote]
Confession is even false in the fact that it is based on penance for sin rather then repentance and a true change of heart. [/quote] No. If a priest feels that the confessor is not truly sorry and repentant for their sins, then they are not forgiven them and told to come back when they are sorry.
[quote]Saying 10 Hail Marys isnt going to change anyone's heart and is a waste of time.[/quote] As should be obvious by my statement above: The prayers are not "assigned" unless the priest feels that the confessor is sorry for their sins. Penance is not there to change a persons heart.
[quote]The power to retain sins, was given to all born again Christians, not just a special elite cadre of priests.
[/quote]It was not given to a special elite cadre of priests, but it was given to a special elite cadre of born again Christians? That doesn't add up. Where does it say that? Heck, the concept of "born again Christian" didn't even exist until the bible was long completed, so how it mentions that born again Christians have the power to retain sins when it was written before they even existed is beyond me.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058041' date='Sep 6 2006, 03:53 PM']
For edification, prayer and support

And its a true exchange too, not scripted to death, not rote. [/quote]

You create a false dichotomy.

Who says something scripted and rote CANNOT be a true exchange??? These are not mutually exclusive terms...

During my marriage, the vows where scripted and rote...does that mean they were not 'true'??

[Budge]

Using the analogy of Marriage, imagine if all your conversations with your spouse were scripted.

Against you put style over substance.

True confession is a shared experience between Christian believers with real edification and fellowship.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058057' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:14 PM']
True confession is a shared experience between Christian believers with real edification and fellowship.
[/quote]

I have that with my Priest...


And you missed a post directed at your before Mlkolbe's

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058057' date='Sep 6 2006, 06:14 PM']
Using the analogy of Marriage, imagine if all your conversations with your spouse were scripted.

Against you put style over substance.

True confession is a shared experience between Christian believers with real edification and fellowship.
[/quote]


So scripted wedding vows aren't legit?

do you take this woman...... "I do"
do you.....

How many times have these words been said. Budge says nobody who says them means it. He's able to judge hearts and minds.

Edited September 6, 2006 by thessalonian

[Farsight one]

I think you misinterpreted what Budge said there, thessalonian.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058057' date='Sep 6 2006, 04:14 PM']
Using the analogy of Marriage, imagine if all your conversations with your spouse were scripted.

Against you put style over substance.

True confession is a shared experience between Christian believers with real edification and fellowship.
[/quote]

you create ANOTHER false dichotomy.

you assume ALL conversations re: confession purely and completely scripted. Further, and i may be reading into this too much, all my conversations with priests are not scripted....ALL my conversations with anyone are not all scripted. some are, yes. but this does not mean i don't 'mean' them.

if you are claiming it is POSSIBLE that these horribly rote and incredibly scripted words CAN lose their effect. SURE!!! you are right... but can't that happen with anything one says???? Just because they are rote and scripted does not CAUSE any 'feeling' behind them to be lost. it is the sinners' heart that determines this...

Further, in the act of geting married, we all say 'i do', i will', 'yes', or some other affirmative. There is a 'formula' used in asking questions of a person of free will, and his/her consent is given and needed. This is rote and scripted to death, but i meant every single scripted and rote word i said when my wife and i were married..almost EVERY marriage celebration has rote questions and rote answers...

ultimately, you are arguing a possible correlation as a causal relationship.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058027' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:36 PM']
The power to retain sins, was given to all born again Christians, not just a special elite cadre of priests.
[/quote]

Did you read John 20:22-24? John has a tendency to use "disciples" in place of "apostles". How many apostles were there?

Oh, and by the way, back up to James 5:14-15. Were the sick told to go to any Christian for heaing/forgiveness of sins, or just the elders/presbyters (depending on your translation)? Catholic priests are officially ordained to the order of "presbyters".

Edited September 6, 2006 by Norseman82

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1057796' date='Sep 6 2006, 01:09 PM']
Next time one of you go to your priest, ask him to confess HIS SINS, to you, after all youve emptied your heart and soul, and see what happens…report back here.
True Christian “confession” is supposed to be a TWO-way--no make that THREE-way street...with God and Christians edifying each other in fellowship.

It isn’t supposed to be ONE guy holding all the secrets and hidden sins of a 1000 people.

[b]
Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Confess your faults ONE to ANOTHER… [/b]
[/quote]
Actually, "one to another" doesn't linguistically imply a two-way exchange.

By the way, no guy holds all the secrets and hidden sins of the people; Christ presents them to His Father upon the Cross.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Budge' post='1058057' date='Sep 6 2006, 06:14 PM']
Using the analogy of Marriage, imagine if all your conversations with your spouse were scripted.

Against you put style over substance.

True confession is a shared experience between Christian believers with real edification and fellowship.
[/quote]
Actually, true confession is between a person and the Lord.

[Budge]

[quote]Actually, true confession is between a person and the Lord.[/quote]

with no priest required.